Growing a Business From the Ground up With David Greenfeld, Co-Founder and CEO of Dream Pops
David Greenfeld is the Co-founder and CEO of Dream Pops, a plant-based, dairy-free, superfood popsicle in flavors like vanilla matcha, mango rosemary, and chocolate with lion's mane mushrooms. As an investment banker prone to late-night ice cream binges, David noticed a lack of ice cream options in the vegan section at the grocery store. As a believer in all things plant-based, he co-founded Dream Pops in 2016, and it’s now in over 7,000 stores, including Whole Foods, Bristol Farms, Fairway Market, and D'agostino. In 2020, Dream Pops was honored in the food and drink section of the Forbes 30 Under 30 list of rising stars.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
David Greenfeld explains what prompted the idea for Dream Pops
David describes the Dream Pops’ journey and the hurdles along the way
What were the challenges of getting a unique frozen product into grocery stores?
The shift from DIY to factory manufacturing and distribution
David describes Dream Pops’ upcoming developments and innovations
Balancing D2C, wholesale, and retail sales
How Dream Pops connects with its customers on various social media channels
The value of using trade shows and social media to garner customer feedback
What you’ll learn in this episode:
Building a brand from the ground up is no easy task. How do you manage product creation, manufacturing, distribution, sales and marketing, and grow your company all at the same time?
Few people appreciate the challenges that accompany creating a brand like David Greenfeld. With a passion for plant-based products and a gap in the frozen treats selection in grocery stores, David saw an opportunity. Starting in his basement, he created a unique frozen vegan ice cream. With almost four years of blood, sweat, and tears, he grew his company and was able to outsource the manufacturing and distribution side of the business and concentrate on sales and marketing. His sales methodology balances D2C, wholesale, and retail strategies. To increase sales, his company Dream Pops uses an organic omnichannel marketing approach, focusing its attention on creating connections on social media channels. It’s not a one size fits all approach. Each digital platform they use — LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, YouTube — requires unique content that connects and targets the appropriate audience demographic they want to reach.
On this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni sits down with David Greenfeld, Co-founder and CEO of Dream Pops, for an in-depth discussion about the establishment and growth of his 100% plant-based ice cream and frozen treats company. David talks about what inspired the company idea, how he managed to get his products into grocery stores, the finer points of his social media strategy, and the innovations on the horizon.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro:
This is From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:06
Hello everyone I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal, where I am fortunate enough to speak with top leaders changing consumer behavior so that they can propel their brands forward. If you love this episode, please check out the other ones with Kara Goldin, the founder of Hint Water or Mike Evans, the founder of Grubhub. Today's episode is sponsored by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we use behavioral science to create meaningful moments of brand trust, which influences how people interact and engage with companies. Our behavioral approach taps into your audience's motivation and prompts them to shift behavior. And if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. These proven behavior models and methods are the strategic foundation for your brand success. Visit offmadisonave.com. To learn more. Today's guest I'm really fortunate to have David Greenfeld, the founder and CEO of Dream Pops 100% plant based ice cream. Now, David's been involved in a few other startups. So his experience in this arena runs pretty deep, which isn't too bad for someone who was on Forbes 30 under 30, class of 2020. David, welcome to the show.
David Greenfeld 1:18
Roger, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Roger Hurni 1:22
Oh, it's great. I got everything right. I didn't screw up any names or anything?
David Greenfeld 1:28
No, you nailed it. We're good.
Roger Hurni 1:31
For everyone listening in our little pre conversation. David, unfortunately, has a name that people say field all the time and there's definitely no I, it’s F E L D at the end. All right. So with that little bit out of the way. Dream Pops 100% plant based is near and dear to me, because I'm on a plant based diet myself. I know the company started in 2018. And so I'm kind of curious, like what was the what's the actual Inception store? I read on the website what it is, but when did the idea come about for Dream Pops?
David Greenfeld 2:13
I would say it started in my childhood. I've had a huge emotional relationship with sweets, treats and desserts. You know whether that was brought I mean growing up in the 90s with Gushers, Dunkaroos Nestle's Dibs, you name it – Dippin Dots. Dippin. Dots are probably my favorite. So there's definitely this obsession with candies and sweets and treats. And, you know, I out of college, I actually ended up going into finance and, you know, worked in investment banking. And at my desk every day, I would have, you know, some ice cream or candy or something, usually a Haagen Dazs bar or Ben and Jerry's pint. And, you know, I started to realize and think a lot about what I was putting in my body every single day, and was just kind of, you know, disappointed by the angry I flipped over a hug. And I was born and started looking at the ingredients and started to think Man, for decades, I've been consuming these products that I am pretty much addicted to. They're filled with artificial flavors, tons of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, there's got to be a better way to you know, really start thinking about the confection industry in the ice cream industry. I've been inspired by brands like Halo Top and California and Oatly and other brands that are really trying to create better for you versions, and there's there in the 2010s. And during that time, I was paying a lot of attention to the industry. And then when I started removing dairy from my diet, I realized there's a lot of inflammation coming from that. And so the goal and the thesis became okay, you know, I went fully vegan. Doing so went to the grocery store and the ice cream options were pretty limited and the ones that I was consuming, definitely didn't deliver on taste, nor nutritional profile. So I was lucky to have an amazing team in place. food scientist, a three star Michelin chef, some amazing people, we all came together and our first product was a Dream Pop, which is a geometric ice cream bar, had five ingredients, coconut milk being the main base, real fruit puree in a stunning shape. And we thought you know, we could take this first product and start reimagining Coke Classic. So we started with a popsicle. Then we launched a bite, Dream Pops bites, which is our take on a Nestle's Dibs product that will really started to take off. And you know, we really we went from making this product in my mom's kitchen. I quit my job and finance started making this literally in a kitchen move to a commercial space with two other folks on the line every single day. started selling into grocery stores Erewhon, Lawson's and Bristol Farms they picked us up and we I kid you not we went you know from five grocery stores to 50 to 100 to now about 7000
Roger Hurni 5:00
What was it like get me into that At first grocery store, which one was it in? How difficult was it?
David Greenfeld 5:07
Yeah, so Bristol Farms and Erewhon were the first two grocers to carry it. The first, literally, it was insanely challenging because we had these beautiful popsicles in a really, you know, awful looking plastic bag with a sticker on it. So to say that I knew nothing about the food industry would be pretty on point, you think you can create a product, but there are a lot of you know, hurdles in terms of making sure that you have the right UPC codes that the supply chain is tight that you have the right distributors that can deliver the product, then add frozen to the equation, which is you know, insanely challenging, you know, products can melt your perishable issues. So I really think that we picked one of the most challenging channels of the grocery store. But I would say just passion and obsession, and continuing to show up for 567 years is kind of what took us to the next step and just laying one brick at a time.
Roger Hurni 6:05
So they get to 7000 stores over the past five years is that you and your team just doing like a direct sales outreach to those retailers.
David Greenfeld 6:16
And it started going literally door to door and trying to convince local Southern California grocery stores. So started with Erewhon and Bristol Farms, which was 15 stores. They said yes, we're making product during the day, in the morning daytime at night palletizing ourselves packaging by hand ourselves delivering to the stores. And you know, a tiny little line in 150 square foot commercial space, then we got lessons, then we got Whole Foods now you're talking about at grocery stores, we have to get five more employees to make products constantly learn how to improve those that supply chain. And we really took a very challenging route other typically brands will go to co packers or CO manufacturers who will do all that work for them. And they'll place an order, they'll get the product and they send it to the store. But because we had such a unique product with only five ingredients and a geometric shape, you know, there was a lot of really challenging supply chain hurdles and manufacturing rules that we had to overcome. But we wanted to create something truly differentiated. And in the grocery aisle, you'll see a lot of products that look like each other. Because they a lot of them use the same co Packers have the same manufacturers or factories. So instead we said if we're going to create a new product that's truly differentiated, we're going to have to build the car from the ground up. And that started in a tiny kitchen. And then you know, a larger space more people. At one point we had 1500 square feet 20 people on a line, you're running seven days a week, three shifts a day. And so eventually, we found some amazing engineers, and we ended up scaling a factory and passing that off to really skilled individuals that could help us do this. And we could focus on sales and marketing. But the first three years it was US manufacturing ourselves.
Roger Hurni 8:04
Wow, you are you're in good company. I did mention the episode with Kara Goldin. In the introduction, she started in her kitchen doing the same thing, putting fruit in the water and figuring out how to just have two ingredients water and fruit. And it's it's tough. And honestly Phil Knight, you know, selling Nikes out of the trunk of his car. So congratulations. I don't think people realize when they see a product on a shelf, how difficult it is to get it there. And perhaps even more difficult to keep it there. shelf space in grocery stores is at a premium. I've worked on Safeway for five years, and it was just always like, if you're not selling someone else will move in with a better deal.
David Greenfeld 8:47
Yes. Realize that realize that real estate is so coveted. And it's one thing to get in the store, but to remain on shelf and to outperform your peers. You know, it takes a merchandising, great marketing, demoing, it's a lot of work.
Roger Hurni 9:01
Yeah. And it sometimes it doesn't matter how much your customers love your product. There's so many other little things that happen in the background that people don't realize, in order to keep that product there. And even if the retailer makes a shift in strategy, all of a sudden your product can be gone because we want to introduce X, you know, and it makes it hard. makes it really hard. Speaking of hard, how was the pandemic. Did that hurt or helper? I mean, ice cream it to me has always been this affordable indulgence. And so it would seem to me that during the pandemic when people are sitting at home, this was a little bit of an affordable luxury and comfort food. Did sales increase decrease? What happened there?
David Greenfeld 9:44
Yeah, so I think we were lucky, lucky in the sense that we had done a ton of groundwork to get distribution prior to the pandemic. So the fact that we had, I think about 800 or 900 stores, maybe 1000 stores at that point was great. If you did not have distribution prior to the pandemic. It was so challenging because buyers didn't want to bring in anything new, they're focusing on what was guaranteed to hit the shelf. And you know what was easy. So you kind of had a period of 18 months where there was going to be limited new distribution additions, which is where a lot of the new growth and revenue comes from. So because we had that distribution, it was great. And then on top of that, the frozen novelty category exploded during the pandemic. So we were in one of the top growth categories, people were really moving towards novelties and plant based novelties. You know, people I think people love to indulge, and health and wellness was at an all time high, people were really caring about what they put in their body. So it's just a nice combination of an escape through indulgence, and then health and wellness trends that really fueled the growth.
Roger Hurni 10:50
Great. You get your first five years now under your belt. What do the next five years look like? I mean, if you could paint a picture to 2028, or even go out to 2030, what is where would you hope to be?
David Greenfeld 11:03
The brand? Yeah, look at people in the space that I really admire Dan Lubetzky from Kind Bars, one of my favorites. The goal and the thesis is, you know, Dream Pops started as a popsicle, we now have an ice cream bite. If you look over my shoulder here, we're launching our candy product, which is shelf stable, it's hitting stores now. That's our first foray into candy and non frozen items. And that proves that we're more than just an ice cream brand. Like we want to be the Willy Wonka better for you desserts. And truly a better for you indulgence company. And so you know, you can see we've got some syrup cetera and r&d, basically our take on our Hershey's chocolate syrup with coconut syrup. We've got a couple other fun frozen innovations that we're cooking up. But the idea is the same way kind bar extended into bars, crisps, bins, granola clusters. We want to really reinvent every dessert experience with design driven products that are better for you and great alternatives to the incumbents on the market.
Roger Hurni 12:06
Nice. I'm glad you mentioned the Willy Wonka thing. I personal note when I was when I was doing some research and I went to the about section on the website, there's a beautiful little animation that you know what looks like you know, a beautiful pink waterfall and you know the rainbow sprinkle rain coming out onto the hill and it felt very Willy Wonka ish to me like that. But I remember as a kid, you know, watching the original with Gene Wilder and sort of that magical moment you walk in and everything is made out of confections. It was just it's a nice piece. I'm not looking for a response. It was just a compliment.
David Greenfeld 12:43
Yes, no, thank you. That's that's the dream world. You know, we're trying to get some big aspirations there. So I'm glad you like that.
Roger Hurni 12:51
Oh, yeah. So I noticed something else on the site there was you have a bit of a DTC strategy with how things are delivered and delivered through the third party. And you're also obviously you have wholesale that's going into certain retailers is one more important than the other? How do you balance that act?
David Greenfeld 13:12
Yeah, so it's funny I mean, when I when we first started the business, DTC was all like was was was everything you know, you see Casper, Casper, Warby Parker, Harry's everyone's Dollar Shave Club, everyone's talking about D2C. And we tried when we first launched, we were selling ice cream direct to consumer, we were shipping boxes with dry ice in these beautiful boxes, trays and popsicles. But then we had ice cream showing up on people's shelves melting. We were having returns, the perishability of direct to consumer was an absolute nightmare. And so in three months, we decided to turn off direct to consumer. And that's when we went all in on the grocery aisle, and going into retail. And many investors when we were trying to raise capital in the early days, they had no interest because we said look, we sell ice cream that's going to sell in the grocery that's going to work in grocery stores. And everyone was looking for, you know, high margin powders, coffees, or coffee products, powdered products, supplements, things that were high margin and light that were great for shipping direct to consumer razors, I guess mattresses, and it was really unappealing. And so we went against against the grain and we said, you know, we're going to build a digital brand that wins in retail, and we're gonna be the best at retail. And that was not sexy at the time. And so that's what we did. That's why we're in 7000 grocery stores right now. And that's why we focused on last mile as our D2C. hedge. So last mile with the Go Puffs, the DoorDash is the grill is the good tears like you mentioned on our website instead of us. Like having frozen fulfillment giant shipping ice packs across the country. We realize wow, there's infrastructure that's being that's emerging, these last mile platforms that we can work With and really lean into, they're going to deliver from Instacart is doing grocery stores, picking it up delivering it. And then you got go puff, which has its own fulfillment centers doing this, if we can partner with those companies, we can do D2C and frozen without the overhead without the challenges of the frozen supply chain that those companies are dealing with. And then lastly, lastly, we're now launching candy, which can work in D2C. So now that we've established ourselves in retail, we now have our first shelf stable product that we are selling direct to consumer on Amazon. And that's kind of our second goal of like, wow, now we're going to, you know, dip our toes in the waters but still sell everything in the grocery store.
Roger Hurni 15:42
Smart operational strategy, it's it's great execution. Let's pivot a little bit I'd love to know about the marketing. What is your strategy for marketing? What are you doing to to connect with customers?
David Greenfeld 15:57
Yeah, I would say it's definitely big on organic omni channel marketing. So looking at huge attention arbitrage opportunities. Those emerged for us with TikTok and LinkedIn in 2020 and 2019. We started creating content every day on TikTok and LinkedIn, and started to see massive reach growth and engagement. When we first started the company, we built the brand on Instagram. So we now had Instagram posts, real stories going up every day. When we started, we added TikTok and LinkedIn in 2019, and 2020. And then, you know, I've dabbled with Pinterest, we we've also created a lot of content on YouTube and YouTube shorts. But the idea is creating content like the digital world that you saw, across mediums that tell our story that relate to the consumer, and looking at every social media platform as a different channel or contextual creative opportunity. So LinkedIn is more b2b and more. But retail buyers are on LinkedIn. So we're going to create content thought leadership content, brand content retailer content that speaks to that audience on TikTok, we're going to create fun recipe videos that show a milkshake or you know, a funny way to use the product that relates to the masses and more of a Gen Z audience. On Instagram, we're going to see that more as a magazine, make it aesthetically beautiful and relate to that more millennial demographic.
Roger Hurni 17:28
You know, I'm gonna translate something and it's really, really smart. Most people don't realize that each of the social media channels have their own psychological profile with how people use those platforms where, you know, Pinterest is a lot of self interest, obviously. And while they're trying to steal from one another, you know, there's, you just have to look at like the lifestyle choices on on Instagram versus the self interest on on TikTok. And so having content that aligns with specific elements of each channel. Most people don't do that. They think it's a one size fits all, like, here's this thing, and let's put it in a TikTok physical format. Let's put it on an Instagram rails format. And, and that's not that's not a good strategy, with all my work in consumer behavior. Like that's the worst thing that you can do. And I think it's really smart that you went down that road. How did you get there? Was this like, Did you did you purposely by design? develop content differently for those channels? Or did you get advice from somewhere? How did you How did you land on that?
David Greenfeld 18:37
Yeah, I mean, I will say that I definitely am a big, big fan of Gary Vee. I listen to his content and a handful of other like marketers that I respect and admire. So just understanding that that strategy there separately, I'm a big, big fan of rolling up your sleeves and doing it yourself. Also, oftentimes, I have other other people that are like you're spending so much time on LinkedIn yourself, you're posting on your Instagram and you're you're creating content on TikTok, how do you have time for that? And my argument is, how are you going to hire someone to do that if you don't know how to do it if you don't know how to facilitate the content yourself, and what actually works and what doesn't work? And so I apply that to every aspect of the business, every single piece of this business since day one I've done whether it's sales, taking sales meetings, manufacturing product on the line, packaging, product, submitting item forms, to retailers, supply chain logistics, marketing. So I think Tony Hsieh from Zappos said it best he makes his employees take sales calls where he made his employee six sales calls at Zappos for three weeks to understand what customer service, I think, in order to be the best at your craft. You have to do every single job and then you can hire the best because you know what it really takes.
Roger Hurni 19:56
Yeah, I would agree wholeheartedly. People are always surprised that I don't know In all the years I've had my businesses, I don't have a gatekeeper. You know, you call me I make my own schedule, I'll post my own stuff. And people are always surprised by that. I'm like, You got to know the basics in order to understand how other people can enhance it, who are actually better at it than you. And if you don't have that skill set to begin with, I think you're you're starting from a really negative place. In all, in all of that is research part of that, like you, you you're the number of hats you wear is massive. And I totally get that. But how are you collecting customer feedback and customer experience so that you can use that in product development? You said, You're doing candy bars? I don't know if there's other product extensions in there. What are you doing in that realm?
David Greenfeld 20:51
Yeah, I mean, trade shows are huge. So we do a lot of trade shows. Now we didn't in the early days, because they were too expensive. But as we've grown, I think they're one of the most valuable opportunities like you, you go to a trade show, like we were just a fancy food in Vegas last week, you show up there if you get one customer that pays for the entire show. So and not only that, but leveraging social media to amplify the efforts of a trade show are some of my I think it's one of the better hacks. So going into the trade talking to the trade understand what's going on looking at your competition to demoing and activations and pop ups and just giving out product, like to the masses, getting hundreds and hundreds of responses. What do they think? Is the product too sour? Does it taste great? Is it too much chocolate? Do we need to work on the coding, being in the grocery store and getting that honest, candid feedback? You get a ton of emails to support at Dreampops.com? Right, I get the support emails, I'm constantly flipping through, okay, what are customers saying? We're looking at DMS to the Dream Pops account. What are people saying when they tag us? How are they speaking about the product? How are they sharing about it, where the positive things are saying and what are the negative things are saying? All of that allows you to iterate, tweak and adjust. And then finally, data, we work with spins, you know, which pulls the data from all these grocery stores that we're in. And you can see, okay, this flavor is trending, it's working really well, for whatever reason, this flavor not so much. And then acting on it as opposed to just, you know, seeing the data and not doing anything about it.
Roger Hurni 22:26
Excellent. Well, you got some great product extensions. Now with the candy bar. You're excited about where the business has gone. So now this is the this is the tough question. What kind of challenges are you facing now that you're that keeps you up at night?
David Greenfeld 22:41
Yeah, this is one of the most intense capital markets I've seen. I've a lot of friends going out of business, which makes me sad, because the world needs more emerging brands and innovation. And unfortunately, in food and beverage, it's pretty dominated by a handful of players. So I get I get it bums me out, because I know people are absolutely killing themselves in going all in unfortunately, sometimes doesn't pan out. So what keeps me up at night, you know, the availability of shelf space going to newer brands, startup brands versus the incumbents. Oftentimes, those big players have great relationships with the retailers, and they just get more facings on the shelf. And the retailer doesn't want to take a bet on a new startup because they might have supply chain issues, or they may have been burned by an emerging brand in the past. So you know, hoping that we keep getting more retail partners to keep betting on us and showing up. Like, the other thing is food beverage, we create a product that people put in their bodies every single day. It's one the most intimate relationships that people have with the product. So every day, you know, we we have millions of people that are eating these products, you know, making sure that those are all great experiences, and that we have pristine lab testing and results in that. You know, our systems and processes are delivering a best in class product that competes with billion dollar companies. I think those are the things I'm constantly thinking about.
Roger Hurni 24:12
You’ve been really gracious with your time I have my last question. And it's it's my standard, because you've given some great advice. And I think all advice good or bad. There's a learning lesson there. And everyone's always asking that question. What's the best advice you've ever gotten? I like to ask this question. What's the worst advice you've ever gotten?
David Greenfeld 24:36
Woof Great question. worst advice I've ever gotten. raise as much money as possible and grow as fast as possible. That's the worst advice
Roger Hurni 24:47
Because you bootstrapped it, is that true?
David Greenfeld 24:50
So, we've raised capital, but we've been very disciplined with it. And sometimes I feel like people are like, just keep raising more money and grow faster. And that is In my mind, that is not how you build a successful company, it works for some people, that's very high risk, and you make a lot of mistakes. The way that I like to that we're building Dream Pops is you take responsible bets, and you make sure that you have as much time as possible to iterate slow growth, momentum. And it's a marathon. And, you know, it's like, you know, brick by brick incremental growth, to a really successful to scale company successfully, as opposed to distribution everywhere, tons of retailers and making it happen overnight. Yeah,
Roger Hurni 25:41
I definitely agree. I've never been a big fan of the business plan that is raised money, go public get rich. I think making sure your product or services, right, making sure that experience with that customer is the best it absolutely can be. And there's never a finish line on that, that you're always trying to improve on that. The rest seems to take care of itself. If you're methodical about it, you make smart choices. You know, you get companies like yourself that grow well. And honestly, pretty quickly, because seriously, five years congratulations, I mean, 7000 stores is is nothing to see that, you know, there's a lot of opportunity in front of you. But it looks to me, it's like you're making all the right kinds of decisions. So conveniently,
David Greenfeld 26:26
Roger, what I will say is five years in the retail market, the idea really started in 2016. And I quit my job in 2017. So I really say I'm building this for seven years. And I am a firm believer, you need like 1015 or 20 years to build a successful company in this space. So just like reiterating anyone who wants to start a CPG brand, it's gonna take 10 to 15 years. And if you don't love it, I really don't recommend this is not a get rich, quick scheme. This is not you know, it's you need to love this space if you want to succeed.
Roger Hurni 27:01
It's a passion, but everybody I've interviewed before in the same position, said the same thing. You got to be passionate about it, because that's the thing that sustains you. Well, you've been great. I had been speaking with David Greenfeld, the founder and CEO of Dream Pops. David, where can people learn more about you and Dream Pops?
David Greenfeld 27:21
Yeah, check us out at dreampops.com or @DreamPops on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, reach out anytime Dave_Greenie, I always love meeting new upstart founders. Any any way I can be helpful. Please reach out.
Roger Hurni 27:38
Wonderful, wonderful. Well, thank you again. I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal and we will see you next time
Outro 27:43
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
