How Core Values Are the Recipe for Success With Jeff Grass, Chairman and CEO at HUNGRY Marketplace
Jeff Grass is Chairman and CEO at HUNGRY Marketplace. HUNGRY is an online marketplace that connects independent chefs with the office catering market and is the first platform to provide business catering and live events through a network of local chefs.
As a four-time entrepreneur, Jeff is an engaged business leader motivated by big, game-changing ideas that will make the world a better place. HUNGRY exemplifies that value by giving back —for every two meals they sell, they donate a meal to help fight hunger and food insecurity in our country and have given away over a million meals to date.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Jeff Grass explains the problem that HUNGRY was designed to solve
What does HUNGRY do to foster chef entrepreneurship, fight hunger, and support environmental sustainability?
How HUNGRY’s business model evolved and expanded due to the pandemic
The innovative way HUNGRY creates a personal connection between chef and consumer
What marketing opportunities are available for HUNGRY to leverage?
How bringing the chef’s story into the mix creates a connection with the people that are being served
Why Jeff believes that HUNGRY’s core values are its recipe for success
The worst advice Jeff has ever received
What you’ll learn in this episode:
What’s your recipe for success? Do you have a strategy that guarantees your business will thrive? A strong sense of core values that carry throughout the business model is one thing that creates a solid foundation for building and growing a business. So how can you make that work in your company?
Culture and a cohesive team environment are often the secret ingredients to an organization’s success, no matter the industry, and result from abiding by stated core values. With four businesses under his belt, Jeff Grass attributes his business success to core values. He says those values define the kind of environment HUNGRY fosters to keep everybody pointed in the same direction, the types of attributes they look for in their team members, and the ability to commit to and achieve the best results for the business. Do your core values do that for your business?
On this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni welcomes Jeff Grass, Chairman and CEO of HUNGRY, for a conversation about the keys to company success, growth, and innovation. They discuss how HUNGRY follows its nine core values, the way it pivoted during COVID and overcame industry challenges, and how HUNGRY makes a personal connection with its customers. Tune in!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is the From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:31
Hello everyone, I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal, where I get to speak with top leaders changing customer behavior so they can propel their brands forward. Before I get to today's guest. This episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we use behavioral science to create meaningful moments of brand trust, which influences how people interact and engage with companies. Our behavioral approach taps into your audience's motivation and prompts them to shift behavior. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. These proven models and methods are the strategic foundation for your brand's success. Visit offmadisonave.com. That's a v e dot c o m to learn more. Now today I have with me, Jeff Grass. He is a four-time entrepreneur of venture capital-backed technology companies with three great exits. And he's currently leading his fourth, HUNGRY, where he is chairman and CEO. HUNGRY is the first-ever platform that provides exceptional business catering and live events through a network of local chefs, very unique. HUNGRY is raised $50 million in funding from top-tier VCs and celebrities, including people like and I'm sure you've heard of some of these Jay Z, Usher, and Kevin Hart, among others. Jeff, welcome to the show.
Jeff Grass 1:54
Thank you, Roger. Excited to be here.
Roger Hurni 1:56
All right, again, anything wrong with your intro? Something else we should tell everybody about?
Jeff Grass 2:00
No, that was perfect. All right, thanks.
Roger Hurni 2:02
It's rare that the word perfect and my name is associated in the same sentence. I do appreciate that immensely. Let's, let's start by giving the audience some background on HUNGRY and where the idea came from. And what is, I thought interesting in my research that direct from a top chef model?
Jeff Grass 2:02
Sure, sure. Yeah, I started HUNGRY about five years ago with two of my co-founders at my last company. Some of the early inspiration was really drawn out of the experience we had there when we were trying to bring food into the office for our team. And you start to realize just how time-consuming it is and how many hassles and headaches are involved with the person charged with ordering food into the office to feed the team. So it's a thankless task, almost universally, our clients, you know, don't like it and don't enjoy that role. And so we really set out to create HUNGRY to solve that problem. And it started with an early realization that companies were investing heavily in bringing food into their office to feed their teams to create better cultures to foster communications and enhance productivity. Yet, they were entirely using restaurants and traditional caterers, neither of whom were ever designed around providing feed in the office. And there's just a mismatch between eight of the office and the office manager that's trying to bring food in and how the industry is structured. And so that's really where we started with and designed HUNGRY around, you know, fundamentally better way of doing it.
Roger Hurni 3:37
So does that circumvent? I guess maybe most offices don't use event planners to do just basic food for corporate events, right?
Jeff Grass 3:48
Not unless it's a large event, and if it's just to, you know, bring in, you know, food for different meetings and trainings or lunch on Fridays. You know, usually, they're stuck doing it themselves. And so the issue is, is that nobody wants food from the same restaurant every day, right? And so it forces you to use a different company each and every day, you've got to get right, you know, what people like, what they don't like their dietary restrictions, their allergies. And not every restaurant is super reliable, they don't provide a level of service that people are looking for, if they're trying to feed a team of, you know, 30, 50, 100 people, there's just the needs of that buyer. And that type of offering is just very different than what the, you know, the industry is structured for,
Roger Hurni 4:31
What's, what is the, I feel like this interview is going to be more about my needs than it is about marketing.
Jeff Grass 4:42
Everybody loves food.
Roger Hurni 4:45
Go figure. What's too small and what's too large in the range of feeding?
Jeff Grass 4:52
Yeah, so for us, in most of our cities, a $200 is the minimum order, and a few of our more expensive markets like New York and the Bay areas $400. So it's definitely for groups, our average order size is closer to $1,000. So, normally, we were typically feeding, you know, teams of 30, 50, 100, like I said, and, and it's also it's not an on-demand platform, it's not, you know, who you're ordering the moment of, and then we're delivering generally, our clients, or we're helping our clients, you know, plan out their, their, their catering, calendar schedules, you know, weeks in advance, you know, helping them with, you know, being able to tap into a whole platform, whole collection of great local chefs and restaurants that work with HUNGRY. And then our team does all the execution. So we own the delivery and the service to make it ultra reliable and provide a VIP level of service.
Roger Hurni 5:44
Well, it means a small group meeting and five or six people, it's not out of the question, really, for SMBs.
Jeff Grass 5:54
It's not now it's at the very low end, I'd say but what we'll typically do, but it's certainly it's not totally out of the question, although our typical price point is around, or even a little bit below Panera's price point. So although you're getting food from really, you know, extremely talented chefs, you know, many with, you know, very well-known chefs, you know, we have a very economically efficient model. And so it allows us to provide very affordable food, but with very high quality and again, you know, VIP level of service and reliability.
Roger Hurni 6:24
Excellent, excellent. There's another side of your business and my research I want everyone to be aware of. I mean, I deal with a lot of clients. I've seen a lot of companies pay lip service to being a good corporate citizen and quote-unquote, what that means. So I think most people out there feel that great companies are also great community leaders, you have a couple of initiatives that I found very interesting, in my research, the fight against hunger program in the “We Recycle.” Can you give us some background on that?
Jeff Grass 6:56
Sure, sure, I'd say it starts with we're a very purpose-driven company or core purpose is to improve the lives of everyone we touch with a special focus on the chefs who are partners on the platforms, the clients that we serve, and giving back in the communities where we operate. You know, from a chef perspective, we actually are a really powerful sort of platform for fostering chef entrepreneurship, we give them an alternative career path where they can make way more money and you know, it's much more lifestyle friendly. You'll find on our platform, we have a disproportionately high percentage of female chefs just because it's much easier to have a family if you've got control over your, of your schedule. Also, lots of minority chefs recent immigrants, just because they usually have access to fewer opportunities than in more traditional chefs. But from a giving back to community perspective, we have a program that we had since day one, where for every two meals that we sell, we provide a meal to help fight hunger and help you fight you know, sort of food insecurity in our country, we've given away over a million meals to date. So it's something we're super proud of. And then we're also trying to help with regard to environmental sustainability. Obviously, there are lots of challenges our planet faces today. And so we try to make sure we have as small of an impact as we possibly can on the environment. So our caterings use materials that we can either recycle and reuse or that are fully compostable, biodegradabl. And so again, just you know, trying to, you know, have a positive impact in the communities where we operate through both environmental and helping fight hunger.
Roger Hurni 8:33
I love that I am not a big fan of the throwaway culture that we have here. Like I’ve traveled a lot of other places, even, even quick casual restaurants will give you silverware and glassware. So I really appreciate you doing those two programs. Don't bury the lead next time start with “Hey, we give it away for more than a million meals a year”.
Jeff Grass
You got it, you got it.
Roger Hurni
Let's get into some of the meat, some learnings now. And obviously, we're on the tail end, theoretically of the pandemic. You started the company in 2017. If I'm doing my math correctly, what was it like, during that time? Because you're doing corporate events, and everyone's working from home in slippers? How did you navigate that? And what were the lessons learned?
Jeff Grass 9:19
Yes, March 2020 was a rough month for us and really anybody in the, in the catering world. Millions of dollars of sales evaporated in the course of just a few weeks, and our whole business was based on, on providing meals and offices and for events and suddenly people were doing neither of those things right? So it, we you know, it was a challenging time, we really faced kind of two choices it was either you know, fire and furlough like most others in our industry were doing, or and we decided to kind of follow the path less, less traveled, which was let's try to innovate our way through it. And so, we really focused on how to leverage the strengths of our platform, we have a tremendous amount of investments in technology here and in logistics and, and other capabilities, a lot of operational capabilities. And then we have this incredible network of independent chefs that we work with. And that really led to the development of a series of rapid new business offerings that we created. But the two that really took off, one is a last-mile food delivery business, again, using our logistics and operational capabilities. And the other was a virtual experience business where we provide, you know, really amazing experiences with our, with our chefs, but it's done online, where we send kits everybody ahead of time, and so you can cook along with the chef, it's a very engaging, interactive experience. And so those are two things that helped us not just survive, but actually grow throughout the pandemic. And then, now that, you know, there's a return to the office that it's happening and picking up steam, the more original traditional part of the business has really been skyrocketing, you know, over the course of the last year or so.
Roger Hurni 11:03
Did you do a lot of the, the online sort of cooking events with, with offices, I know, just even speaking to friends of mine who own other companies, it was this thing is like, Hey, what are you doing? We're renting a bartender, we're bringing a comedian on for 10 minutes before the meeting, you know, just to try to have some kind of human connection, cooking seems so obvious that like, here's a set of ingredients to everybody, and we're going to, we're going to share a cooking class together. It was successful for my company the couple of times that we did it, how, how much of that did you really end up doing was just everybody doing that?
Jeff Grass 11:41
Yeah, it started as something we'd never thought of before. And March hit and I think we did about two and a half million business in the first year, eight and a half million the second year. So it really took off. And we provide I'd say, you know, sort of, but by far and away the highest quality solution, you know, we've got celebrity, you know, chefs, malaise mixologist, that are providing a very curated high-end experience for folks. So it's something that's really taken off, today, we're still seeing demand, a lot of it is companies using it for client engagement. And then also companies that have embraced more of the work-from-anywhere approach, using it for team engagement. So there continues to be a need. And I think, you know, we live in a more hybrid world, we think that's a good part of our business going forward as well.
Roger Hurni 12:30
So it sounds like it's sort of a steady service line, at this point for you. It's interesting. And when you start a business, you end up doing things you think you would never do. Never part of the business plan. And all of a sudden situations beyond your control. We're like, okay, let's pivot. And now we have this ability to offer something we never thought of. It's true entrepreneurship to take advantage of those moments. So I'm glad to see you navigated. You navigated that really well.
Jeff Grass 13:00
Yeah, well, you know, a huge crisis can really galvanize, you know, a lot of action. And necessity is the mother of invention. But, but it's really a testament to our team, our team, you know, there were people doing superhuman feats left and right, you know, throughout 2020, that really enabled us to pivot super quickly launch and create and build these businesses that we've never thought of before in record time. And, and we ended up tripling our business over the course of the first two years, the pandemic, and so excited that returned offices now happening is that part of our businesses just, you know, really come back strong and skyrocketing.
Roger Hurni 13:33
I hope that with all the work that I do in behavior, modification of consumers, you know, I often talk to a lot of people in your position where there's this catalyst this extrinsic force that pushes motivation in a new direction. And it leads to all this innovation. Once you get over a situation, that same motivation decreases significantly for a lot of people. Are you able to, to continue to innovate? Maybe not at the same level, but are you doing anything systemically to push innovation within the organization?
Jeff Grass 14:13
Well, I think, you know, by nature of, of us still being very much of a startup kind of mentality, only five-year-old business it helps, right? You know, we are we very much follow our nine core values here as well and have a very much a strong bias to action, which I think helped us when, you know, when a crisis struck, it allowed us to, you know, be used to moving very quickly making quick decisions, you know, and, and, and we've always had a philosophy since day one of get things to market quickly. Like, let's not spend a lot of time in a conference room debating let's take the idea. We think it has merit and build, you know, kind of a basic version of it to see how clients react to it and, and use them to help guide us as to what's really, you know, kind of the writing answering. So I say that philosophy still permeates where we're trying to innovate. Now it has shifted and evolved a little bit from, from what it was during the middle, the pandemic, but largely, it's just constant focus on customers and their customer needs. And then, you know, having them help guide us, you know, in that journey of consternation.
Roger Hurni 15:20
So, that leads me to this other question, from a consumer perspective, because I know that you're that B2B, you know, you're not public facing, there are a lot of new dining behaviors that came out of the pandemic, from people being more inventive about cooking at home during it to being willing to just go out and experiment a lot more. And when they go out, I saw a stat the other day that restaurant reservations are up like 35%, it's not that more people are going out, just they want to make sure they have a table that they you know, that you're able to have the experience that they really want and not have to wait in line. had any of those translated on the corporate side to where the your, your menus have shifted and changed, or people are more experimental is or I don't know, what would be translatable there, but I just didn't, I'm asking the question.
Jeff Grass 16:15
Um, I'd say, you know, people are more militant than ever around their diets. So maybe they, you know, kind of the pickiness, and people were kind of use them, you know, things that they want, which always makes it more challenging, you know, for our clients in terms of trying to manage it themselves. And that's where we can come in and, and really help with, you know, very customized, you know, meals for folks. You know, certain, certain general trends. I think everybody's interested in experience, right? So you hear this theme around experiences these days. And that's an area of innovation for us. You know, we have all of these independent chefs, you know, primarily who are cooking out of incubator kitchens, ghost kitchens, but they all have incredible stories, they have incredible backgrounds, you know, their food, TV network stars, they've cooked for famous people, they, you know, their top chefs from top schools. And an area that we're really focused on trying to innovate in this year is how do we bring that Chef story into the office and create more of a connection with the person that made the meal for you, that day, give you insight into the person, the ingredients, you know, everything that's involved in the meal, provide more transparency, and really, you know, highlight, you know, today's cheffy script for President Obama in the White House, or this is a chef that is Will Smith, this personal chef, or this is a chef that used to be the executive chef at the Taj Mahal in India, these are all chefs on the HUNGRY platform, knowing that learning about them, you know, makes it much more interesting than, Oh, we're getting sandwiches from Panera today, you know. And so that's an area that we think there's a real opportunity to innovate in and create more of a special end customer, we call them guests, you know, guest experience,
Roger Hurni 17:54
I haven't, in full disclosure have not ordered from HUNGRY, actually not in Arizona. So there it goes, that should probably should be a question, where are you? I have worked with a lot of restaurants in the food and beverage space. And there was this one restaurant in particular where the chef commented to me when we're going over a bunch of stuff that he spends nearly as much time with the guests as he does in the, in the kitchen, getting to meet them, asking them how things are going, what they like, what they don't like, that level of personalization, and an experience or so it made the dining experience really unique. And it seems like you'd have that opportunity for hay at a certain size for an additional fee. You know, we can have our chefs zoom in and, you know, provide some background or do anything like that. I mean, your, your product is already bespoke. So now, can you make it a more personalized experience? And I think, I think where you're going is just really smart. Really? There's not a question there. It's just more of an observation.
Jeff Grass 19:04
Thank you. Yes. And I think there Yeah, I don't know, the right answer just said, I just know, there's, there's a lot of opportunity there. And we're kind of uniquely positioned with, you know, being the game that, you know, the force is picking up the food, bring it to the client site, you know, to come back later, we do a free cleanup service for our clients. So, you know, having that on-site presence, you know, as well as the relationship with the chef, I think gives us opportunities to do lots of innovative things.
Roger Hurni 19:30
So how was, how are you marketing HUNGRY? And have people get to know about it?
Jeff Grass 19:37
Well, like you said, we are primarily a B2B2C Company, right? So we're mostly selling into companies that are providing food for their teams on a regular basis. So our go-to-market is very direct sales driven. So we do a more limited amount of marketing and much more sort of direct selling as we're trying to reach you know, usually, it's, it's one The three key decision makers inside of a broad organization. And so those are the ones that we're really spending our time engaging with. We're trying to do those use these touch points we have with guests to, you know, to create more of an experience for them as well.
Roger Hurni 20:13
So, so then I assume you just have some sort of Sales Team been like, okay, a leads listed companies between X and Y sighs it's kind of corporate events, and they've got, and then they're going out and doing the pitching. The other side of that coin is are you taking advantage then? How much advantage Are you taking? With the people that have experienced it? Having them? I don't know, post on social and share experiences and capture those stories? Are you doing anything around that area yet?
Jeff Grass 20:43
Roger, we do a very poor job at that, to be perfectly honest. I think there's there's plenty of opportunity for us to try to galvanize that more. But today that it hasn't been an area that we've we've really cracked the code on. At this point.
Roger Hurni 20:59
Yeah, that that does seem like a big opportunity, because they, they can be your evangelists. I mean, the experience I had at the one restaurant where the chef comes out and does that, before they were a client, I got to experience that. And, you know, my very first dining experience, there was 20 years ago, I still talk about it to this day, you know? Yeah, when you have an experience that, that's good, and that's unique. Give people a megaphone. Yeah. Right. All right. There's just an opportunity there for you so.
Jeff Grass 21:31
I couldn't agree more. We need Off Madison Avenue to help us out.
Roger Hurni 21:37
What kind of challenges now are you facing with the business, you got it off the ground, you survived the pandemic you pivoted, you're doing some innovation? Outside of the little bit of a marketing challenge, we seem to uncover in the conversation, what are the actually the challenges that you're facing now in running the business and the opportunity?
Jeff Grass 21:54
Well, after all those things you mentioned, then we had, you know, food service worker shortage, we've had massive inflation and food and gas prices, you know, lots of other interesting challenges to manage through. But I think we've navigated them quite well, our model gives us a tremendous amount of flexibility. Last year was a heavy year of investment and growth for us. So we expanded our footprint from, from really five, five to seven cities to now we're in 14 different markets. And so it was it was a heavy year of hiring, training, and building a significant presence in most of the major cities across the country. So this is a year around, you know, trying to continue to grow upon each of those different new markets, and drive, you know, lots and lots of customer adoption. So we're big believers that the trend towards return to Office is still in its early innings, there's still lots more that, that's going to happen this year. And, and so we're trying to be well positioned for that. The other thing we did was we acquired a healthy snacks company called NatureBox. Last year, and so we see this as a really nice, natural combination with, with our business. So we can now provide our clients not just, you know, really amazing catering, but also a suite of solutions around pantry services. So think, you know, office snacks, drinks, you know, along with replenishment services that come with it. So. So those are some of the areas that we've been innovating in and focusing on and managing through.
Roger Hurni 23:26
It sounds because it's corporate and because you've got like the snack thing that you purchase, which it seems really smart. It doesn't seem like the recession would really factor into your business too much.
Jeff Grass 23:39
Yeah, well, recession certainly impacts, you know, budgets around food, but returned to Office, the return office trend we're seeing is far outweighing that. So it's interesting, although the economy is, is uncertain, and a lot of companies are adjusting and lowering forecasts. We're in one of the fastest growing industries in America, you know, office foods, because of the return to Office, you know, it was a $50 billion industry before the pandemic that went to almost zero you know, when COVID hit, and now it's coming back. We're not sure what exactly the new normal and where it will come out. We're seeing examples of lots of companies that didn't used to bring in food before doing so now because it's a really great motivator to get people to come to the office to and spend time together. Obviously, not everybody's back five days a week and probably won't be so there's there's puts and takes but, but it clearly will be a huge industry and one that we plan to be a major major player in.
Roger Hurni 24:40
Yeah, the office food thing. It will quick personal story. I used to work for one of the largest agencies on the planet when I was in San Francisco. And I commented one day, like Pankaj, every meeting, I go to this food like, like a ridiculous amount of food and the person who was leading the meetings it. That's because it's the only way to get you creatives into these meetings. Earlier you won't go, I answered some a couple more questions, you've been really generous with your time. The first one is, and hopefully this isn't too much of a curveball. What question were you expecting me to ask that? I didn't ask?
Jeff Grass 25:20
Ah, that is a curveball question. Maybe maybe a little bit more around, like our culture and our team, just, you know, I think that's really one of the secret ingredients to why HUNGRY has been so successful. In just a few short years, we've really grown this business quite tremendously. And I touched on it a little bit with our culture and our purpose and our values. But, you know, it's just been remarkable to see how well the our team has performed. And, you know, just setting new records, you know, time and time again,
Roger Hurni 25:57
Well expand upon that just a little bit, you said you had nine core values, I don't know if you can read them off the top of your head. There they are behind you. For those, this is audio, but they're, they're right there. Why has that been? I'm a huge believer in core values. I've had the same advice since I started my company 24 years ago. And we hire on them, we fire on them, we find clients on them, you know, when things are aligned, it just just makes life easier? To be perfectly honest. Why are they so important to you and in your organization, how they've helped you grow,
Jeff Grass 26:37
we really view them as our recipe for success. You know, these these nine core values, I won't read them all, but you can find them on our website, tryhungry.com. But, you know, they really define the kind of environment that we're trying to foster the, the, the types of people and the attitudes that we're looking for, from from everybody. And it's a mutual commitment. It's, it's what, you know, we're asking you, we're sort of saying is really important, you know, from the team, but also with the team should expect from from the company. And, and so we talk a lot about our core values, we celebrate them, we highlight people that are really exhibiting, you know, each of them in different ways. But it actually from a leadership perspective, I think makes it easier to set, you know, clarity of direction, keep everybody rowing in the same direction, you know, the kinds of, of, you know, what's expected is just clear for people. And so we find that it really helps us, you know, work much more tightly as a team and, and produce much better results.
Roger Hurni 27:38
Nice, nice. All right, final question. And then we'll let you go. Here, I'm sure you've got better things to do than continue to talk to me. This is great. I've always believed that you learn as much from when things go badly, or when there's a negative situation as you do and there's a positive situation or when things are going well. So my last question for you is what's the particularly you being a four time entrepreneur, Mickey's? What's the worst advice you've ever gotten?
Jeff Grass 28:04
The worst advice I've ever gotten? Well, luckily, having run four different businesses, I've made lots of mistakes and lots of screw ups along the way. So you just tend to, you know, learn from them. And actually, here at HUNGRY, we have a real focus from a culture perspective on it's okay to fail, it's okay to make mistakes. We do lots of post mortems. So we try to understand what caused us to fail, what went wrong? How do we engineer it out of our process to make sure we don't repeat the mistake over and over again, but we really try not to punish mistakes, or you know, or come down negative. Just because that will tend to make people afraid to take risks and try new things. But worst advices, an entrepreneur I think I've ever received was, was, was like, don't tell people about your idea, because they'll steal it from you. And it's interesting when I talk with younger entrepreneurs today, so many of them are afraid to share their idea. And I'm a huge advocate of being entirely other direction that, you know, people are not walking around, like planning to take your idea and drop everything you're doing their life and try to, you know, compete with you. You need to expose that idea to the world in order to get feedback and perspective. Much like we try to be very customer led and everything we're doing in an early stage of an entrepreneurs life. I think the more you share your idea with others, the more you're going to get feedback, some of it valid, some of it invalid, you've got to sort out you know, you'll get more nose than yeses right in terms of what people think about your idea. So you've got to be willing to sort through it but but it's going to help you refine your thinking sharpen your idea may get better and better. And so I'm a big believer of share it and get more more feedback rather than try to keep it too close to the vest because it's just too hard to figure it out. Otherwise,
Roger Hurni 29:59
excellent. Advice. Excellent advice? Well, again, I really appreciate all of your time today. I had been speaking with Jeff Grass, who's the Chairman and CEO of HUNGRY. Jeff, where can people learn more about you and HUNGRY?
Jeff Grass 30:12
How you can find us online at tryhungry.com, tryhungry.com. Or we've got a pretty great social media presence and most of the major channels as well.
Roger Hurni 30:21
Excellent. Excellent. I'm Roger Hurni. This is From Persona to Personal and we'll see you next time.
Outro 30:29
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
