How a 125-Year-Old Milling Company Impacts Customer Behavior With Pete Levangie, President and CEO of Bay State Milling Company
Pete Levangie is the President and CEO of Bay State Milling Company, a business that provides access to healthy, delicious, and responsibly sourced and produced food ingredients. The company is 125 years old, spanning five generations of family ownership, with nearly $1 billion in sales.
Over the last 30 years, Pete has accumulated a deep background in the ag food industry. Joining Bay State Milling in 2004, he started as the Vice President of Strategic Planning before being promoted to his current role five years ago, where he’s responsible for all functional areas of the company and its daily operating activities. He is also Chairman of the Board at Project Bread and a board member for Basic American Foods.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Pete Levangie explains Bay State Milling Company and who its customers are
How Bay State Milling ensures that its wheat is pure and healthy
Considerations for going direct-to-consumer
Pete discusses the marketing opportunities the company leverages
Lessons learned from the pandemic
How to initiate impacting consumer behavior
The worst advice Pete has ever received
What you’ll learn in this episode:
With all the talk about the evils of gluten and carbohydrates, how can companies successfully market products like wheat flour, rye, oats, seeds, or spices? Brands must innovate and take initiatives that impact customer behavior to maintain a thriving business. So how has a 125-year-old milling company survived in this environment?
What can a milling company focus on to attract customers to its products? With nearly three decades in the food space, Pete Levangie has zeroed in on solutions that people rely on to simplify their shopping experience by making food less processed and connecting with them in an authentic way. Pete explains how Bay State Milling scales the company by minimizing food processing practices to appeal to food-conscious people who value sustainable products and methods, including plant-based foods.
On this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni welcomes Pete Levangie, President and CEO of Bay State Milling Company, to talk about ways to effectively market products like wheat flour, rye, and oats, which have been consumed for over a century but, in many cases, have fallen out of favor with customers. Pete discusses what Bay State Milling does to ensure its products are healthy and desirable, the company's marketing opportunities, and lessons learned from the pandemic. Don’t miss it!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:34
Hello, everyone, I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal where I get to speak with top leaders changing customer behavior so they can propel their brands forward. Before I get to today's wonderful guest. This episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we use behavioral science to create meaningful moments of brand trust, which influences how people interact and engage with companies. Our behavioral approach taps into your audience's motivation and prompts them to shift behavior. And if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. These proven behavioral models and methods are the strategic foundation for your brand success. Visit offmadisonave.com to learn more. Now today, I am super excited to have with me, Pete Levangie. For the past 30 years, Pete has accumulated a deep background in the ag food industry. Currently, Pete serves as the president and CEO at Bay State Milling Company, a company with sales just under $1 billion. Pete has also held that position for the past five years, where he leads the growth and strategic initiatives. Before coming to Bay State, however, Pete worked for one of the biggest ag businesses there is, that's Cargill, so I think everybody is probably very familiar with that brand. I was really nice to find out that he's also the chairman of the board for Project Bread and is a board member of Basic American Foods. All of this is not it, he has actually done a startup taking it from zero sales to an exit. And Pete went back to business school sometime after that, and did volunteer work at a group home shelter for at risk youth, which clearly makes Pete a really good guy. And I'm very proud to have him on the show. Pete, welcome.
Pete Levangie 2:21
Thank you very much Roger, delighted to be here.
Roger Hurni 2:24
Did I screw up anything or anything wrong there?
Pete Levangie 2:27
No, I, we probably should end right there. Because I'm like,
Roger Hurni 2:32
well, let's see. I've got a few questions I'm sure the listeners want answers to so we'll continue. Probably can't top that intro though. But am I better once I think? Well, let's start. Let's start here. I know that Bay State Milling has been around graded websites since 1899. So that clearly makes it a startup. Ace, I know there's only a handful of companies I've had that, you know, one, eight is the beginning of the year they were founded, the key give listeners an overview of how the business works, and really who your customers are,
Pete Levangie 3:07
we play in a part of the value chain of food that is probably pretty unfamiliar to most consumers. But were what I would call a food ingredient processors. So we connect agriculture, think crops growing in fields or, you know, on trees, to food companies, CPG, consumer packaged goods, companies, all sorts of brands that you're familiar with, restaurants, et cetera, et cetera, anyone that's in the production of of food, and more specifically, what Bay State Milling has been for most of its 100 near 125 year history is in the wheat milling industry. And so we is wheat based foods are play a dominant role in in our diets, which we can talk a little bit more about. And we've been in that business for that full 12 plus decades, playing a very sort of niche II role, which is we tend to are drawn to kind of the hard specialty elements of of wheat based foods, organics, boutique grains, whole grains, all sorts of things there. And what we've been up to Roger for about the past decade plus is building on that heritage in really broadening and transforming the company from strictly a wheat Miller to more of a plate plant based food ingredient provider. So essentially, again, what we do is we work with farmers and others who were close to the farm who produce crops. We basically take the year's harvest and are very selective about that in terms of what crops we're we're Purchasing, we process them in all sorts of different technologies. And we make them into usable functional ingredients for our customers. So wheat flour is by far the biggest. And you'd be surprised, you know, the hundreds of different kinds of wheat flours we produce for all sorts of manufacturers. And then think of kind of the end product is anything from pasta, to bread, to muffins to cookies, cereal, the world of, of wheat based foods is huge. Now we're also back to what we've been up to the last 10 years we've migrated beyond wheat into some other interesting grains and seeds. So we play a big role in oats now. Things like even chia seeds, amaranth also play a role chickpeas. So lots of really interesting things that are often powering what we refer to as kind of next generation plant based foods.
Roger Hurni 6:04
Well as as a, as a high as a vegetarian, and having a plant based diet. This is clearly something I personally appreciate. You said something about technology, a company like yours, actually any company that's been around for more than a century. You can't you can't live, you can't evolve that you sorry, you can't have that company have that kind of longevity without innovation. So you talked a lot about wheat. You said like hundreds of wheat, but maybe I got that wrong. Yeah, hundreds. I thought there was like maybe three kinds of weeds. So I don't know what I don't know. I just like to expand upon the wheat. Because I mean, I'm one of those people who's anti anti carb, again, so you know, I love bread. And I'm all in. But what's the innovation around wheat specifically? And? And how is that turning that reputation into something that, oh, stay away from because of, you know, the whole carb thing or whatever, into something that is healthier? And it's really a part of our diets?
Pete Levangie 7:20
Yeah, it's funny, we often say here about wheat based foods, you either hate to love it, or you love to hate it. And so you might be in that sort of hate to love it camp were off. I love you know, bread, but I worry about the carbs and the simple carbs.
Roger Hurni 7:43
But to be clear, I'm gonna tell you to be clear. I'm a love to love it. So I'm in the third category I'm doing number C.
Pete Levangie 7:49
Right. Right. And we are living in I think, in some respects, like a really exciting time for Food Innovation, kind of working backwards. From your question, Roger, you know, just, there's so many interesting choices emerging so much innovation in different parts of both kind of traditional foods, as well as, you know, new foods we hadn't really contemplated in the last several years. But for us, you know, with a 12 plus decade history, innovation is is an interesting challenge, we actually use quite a bit of tried and true technology that, quite honestly looks a lot like it did in the early part of you know, the last century, it hasn't changed much. We've made it more efficient, more scalable, more sustainable, etc, etc. But the levers that we have living in that connection between agriculture, and in those who really make food is we have processed technology. And so there are different things we can do to process that raw material that comes in that off farm, you know, just harvested off the field, picked off the tree scraped off the tree, we actually processed cinnamon Kasha out of Indonesia, which is a bark, et cetera, et cetera. But then the other thing and honestly, the more because a lot of our processing at Bay State Milling is fairly benign. You know, we are doing a lot of incredibly high tech synthesis ation or isolation Fractionation. There's a lot of really funky stuff that can happen in the food system. On that part of process technology. We are doing what I would call kind of simple benign kind of reduction, separation, because what we're really trying to do is express the intrinsic value of that crop. Have that plant or that derivative from the plant the seed the bark. And so the other element of innovation for us, where we spend a lot more time often in collaboration is trying to cultivate and find and nurture different crops, better forms of wheat, oats, et cetera, et cetera, all in our world, without the use of technology that is kind of a hot button in the food system, which is genetic modification. So nothing that we do qualifies as. And you've probably heard this acronym, GMO, genetic modification. This is all kind of old school using some modern techniques, breeding selection, crossbreeding, all that it takes a long, long time. But those are our two main levers, Rodri. It's finding, picking cultivating seeds, process technology, and then the final step for us. So we don't just sort of create something and put the shingle out and say, Hey, come by, you know, our new chickpea flour, X, Y, and Z or new wheat flour, we basically have to show our customers how to apply it in often in the application of the ingredients. We are using other technologies to make the our ingredient, the featured ingredient, work in the final food product, a serial, nutrition bar, bread, you name it, and we cover a lot of ground with respect to where our ingredients go.
Roger Hurni 11:44
Are you following that? You know, that it makes perfect sense. Do you find that the your ingredients are they seem that they're less highly processed? And they seem that they go into foods that are less highly processed? Is it Is that true?
Pete Levangie 12:01
Very typical. Yes. Yes. Not that wouldn't be true necessarily evolve. Even Miller's but but where we play Roger is so spot on, we really believe in and prefer kind of Whole Foods solutions. Now the truth is, a lot of what we use is that sort of raw material, you know, he wouldn't satisfy most consumers. Without some, again, white processing. So we're often taking out for instance, wheat, oats, a lot of them have a protective layer, around the sea, in that brand layer, that whole is without some processing would be very difficult to use in any food application and would certainly crack a few teeth if you just you know, popped it in your mouth.
Roger Hurni 12:56
Yeah, but I mean, you seem like you're, I want to get to consumer behavior and other things, but it seems like your your product is less highly processed. I mean, it seems like it's an old, traditional, modern version of an old traditional way of processing, if I'm not mistaken.
Pete Levangie 13:15
Yeah. I mean, are you the the thing that leads to Exactly, yep.
Roger Hurni 13:18
Yeah, but that seems like that makes you really well positioned right now. And it may be this is because also the pandemic. I mean, what most people don't realize is that World War Two changed how we look at food processing, you know, we had to have Mr. E's for the soldiers. stuff, I said, shit, should have a lot, it's a lot longer, it's not gonna last a lot longer. And, and he put our food industry on this trajectory for decades of getting things more and more processed, making them easier and easier to make. You know, we've all heard the, you know, the maker cake story in the 50s. Like, all you need to do is add water, but housewives, quote, unquote, in the 50s thought that wasn't a they felt like they were cheating their families. And so they had Okay, well add oil in an egg that you can add. Now it felt like they were baking a cake, right? It was super highly processed. So I love the fact that against your competitors, you're really well positioned. I want to move because because that positioning seems to have really served you well, like I don't imagine it served you well during the pandemic, because people were people were baking at home more doing those kinds of things, did you? How was the business during that time and what lessons were learned?
Pete Levangie 14:35
Yeah, the pandemic was super interesting for us. So so the mix of our business, pre pandemic was pretty evenly split. And remember, we're selling almost 99% of what we do is not going directly to a consumer. It's going to someone, of course, serves the consumer, but about half of the business was to grocery Retail CPG you know, preparing foods fresh foods that you go to a grocery store some version of, of modern grocery to get the food, but the other half was going into away from home Ed, often what we call food service, right. So, you know, some of our better flowers may go through to district through distribution to some great restaurants, both, you know, large national chains, or even, you know, maybe one of your favorite independent restaurants right down the street, depending on where you live and what market you're in. So back to the pandemic, we we like many got, right at the beginning, when food service away from home eating was totally shut down. That was a very abrupt, you know, pretty scary impact on the business. You know, we add, we have 10 manufacturing plants across North America, a few of those plants, essentially, probably for the first time ever since they started up, couldn't run for a week or two, you know, and then that was a scary moment. But but we we got past that we shifted, because what ended up happening is, it wasn't like people started eating less, they just eat differently. And so that away from home eating shifted to at home, and you you've seen and know all the innovation that went on during that time. But for us specifically, you're not wrong, what ended up happening. And I would say this was more of an industry effects specific to wheat based foods, we saw quite a big bump in consumption, baking at home, comfort foods, you know, simplification of from menus for those food service providers that were trying to meet you. Even when you read to your house to grocery stores, if you recall, all the stockout challenges that were happening, what many of our customers did and we had to pivot and adjust to is they simplified their operations, you know, from the Labor challenges to supply chain issues that were affecting everybody, everyone went to simplification. So ultimately, Roger, the mix was tough at the beginning, we sort of weathered that first few months, we then adjusted to sort of the mix of business. But the other business mix challenge we had. And this is an oversimplification of our business. But some of what we make is what would be referred to in the industry has commodity ingredients, you know that the distinguishing factor, because remember, where we make like two and a half billion pounds of stuff, and not every single pound is super special, there are things and we do it really, really well, that are frankly a little bit more mundane, in traveling kind of the commodity lien. That part of the business, the more commoditized simple part of our portfolio products did fabulous, the super high end special and then we were launching, we'll probably talk today a little bit about this stuff. We're also kind of an innovator, we like to do a lot of things in bring some new stuff to market, all of that basically shut down. Low is very little new product development for about 18 months. So today, you know, almost three years after the initial shutdown, were really just see a return to the kind of product innovation that is very critical to where our growth goes. So that's a long answer to your question, but we really had kind of mixed results.
Roger Hurni 18:57
Now and that makes that makes sense because you you definitely have some product expansion going on. In terms of like oats and the other things that you discussed during that time. Did you ever consider having a DTC line? Just because they're those are staples. I mean, you produce a lot of staples.
Pete Levangie 19:17
Yeah, that's a great question. So what ended up happening? Roger, we have one of our more sort of exciting and bolder innovation efforts has to do with wheat specifically where we've worked with some partnerships around the globe to truly reinvent wheat and and in the spring of 2020. There's a big industry food show referred to as Expo West. They have it out in Anaheim. And that was our coming out party for what we call our health sense. High fiber week portfolio like we had just about 20 Something years of development coming into screen. And, you know, obviously that convention did not take place. None of our customers are doing product development, where all the action was moving to at home. And just as you said, people are now starting to big get home, they hadn't been doing that years, there was sort of this flight back to, you know, reconnecting with food, F at home food production. So the team, something we are not familiar with. But the team that runs that business, and they did a phenomenal job, because the supply chain was a mess everywhere, they actually launched our own version of an at home flower, which we refer to as flourish, which a redesigned it. They did the packaging, they got that out the door in like six months, which is pretty phenomenal in our business, particularly at that time. So that was an example. Yes, we decided, let's go right to the consumer, not because we thought honestly, Roger, we were going to build, you know, millions and millions of dollars of sales. But it was an opportunity as a b2b player, business to business player, let's make some connection to the consumer, with this really novel product that will come that will become valuable when we return to the new normal of product development, and have some more consumer insights to provide our customers. And that's where we are today.
Roger Hurni 21:25
They are still offering that product then.
Pete Levangie 21:29
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. So, absolutely.
Roger Hurni 21:31
So how, because you have customers that sell to consumers. But now you're you're dipping your toe into the DTC market? What kinds of things are you doing to, to market to them and get that, get that brand out there flourish?
Pete Levangie 21:52
Yeah, so what we did, and I think we sort of know our strengths and weaknesses in admittedly, you know, building brand marketing for a company like ours is, though we have some great, literally like 60 year old brands that still matter, in some markets to some, you know, baking community in South Florida, or Detroit or Chicago. The modern version of consumer branding is a big strategy for us, you know, we launched that. So what we're doing now, is we're not leaning into that heavily, we're using some of that work to actually help some of our customers. So without getting too specific, because I don't think they you can, you know, there aren't many big brands that focus on fundamental ingredients at the brand level in the store, you can think of some King Arthur, General Mills, Bob's Red Mill, like there's a whole bunch of those. Now, what we are doing, is we are trying to work with CPG brands like that, to help them launch their versions of our ingredients.
Roger Hurni 23:10
Yeah, well, I mean, it makes sense, it comes down, ya know, it does make sense it, honestly, it comes down to that customer experience, always, whether you're working with your customers, and by on behalf of that consumer, that customer experience has shifted, how they use those raw ingredient products now. Before it was a once in a while thing, and now you have the opportunity in front of you to make people feel better about what they're making at home. They're more interested. There's a higher level of motivation. Initially, that motivation, that added motivation has shifted areas, it's initially been driven by Well, I can't go out it's really dangerous to go the grocery store, you know, you don't have to put on masks and everything. But now it becomes this. These individual behaviors of making these things during the pandemic have turned into habits for a lot of people to where they're providing their family, these better products, his homemade products, but there's a there's a pride that I feel like your industry has tapped into and really leveraged in my off base on that.
Pete Levangie 24:26
I think that there is an opportunity there. I think the forces that are hard to so we're where we're doing our part to participate there, but the but the forces that are at play in terms of how people consume food today, the importance of convenience. The time constraints, people generally are faced with, you know, Monday through Sunday about their relationship with food. Production are very real. In and are in though we did see which we loved this return to people really connecting an authentic way with making their food. Our belief, and I think it's bearing out in what we're seeing is that's not sustainable. So what we're really focused on is in those food solutions that people rely on, to make the experience of their food simpler, less processed, connect them with it in some authentic way, in a better way. That's those are the kinds of brands we want to work with. So shall we are targeting are more novel ingredients in places where people are saying, you know, I look at mac and cheese, you know, I know you have kids and, and, and, and my kids are much older now. But we fed them a lot of mac and cheese. And I can assure you, my we love to cook at home. But there was just a role for mac and cheese. And so what we're focused on is a, let's try to make that simpler in terms of kind of clean, label healthier, and just where possible to use more sustainable ingredients, which is another big trend moving through the food system that is very important. So that's our challenge Roger, that we, we have to partner sell through our customer who is really who really owns the brand, the consumer connection. And, and I could tell you, you know, and we're all ears, and I was psyched to do this with you. Because you know, as I told you, my takeaways I'm I'm untaken notes. I'm open, there's a golden nugget or two in here, because it is it is not insignificant. It's one thing to have your own brand where you work to connect directly with that consumer. And I know how hard that is, when you're one step removed. But we've been doing a lot of thinking about because this is, you know, in our history, this is a relatively new phenomenon for us being you know, 125 years old or so how do we actually really bring what we think is some breakthrough innovation to the marketplace? Where ultimately, we're going to get that significant change in consumer behavior that pulls it through that that's our that's our challenge.
Roger Hurni 27:50
Yeah, I mean, in order to get there, though, you're going to have to change your customers behaviors on how they integrate with your products. And I'm sure you have a staple of ones that have been probably with you for decades. And maybe they take your counsel, but if you're going to change that customer experience and help them do that, you still probably have to get new customers. So your customers so how do you go about getting customers yourself? And and is there something special that you do around the conversation that we just had?
Pete Levangie 28:31
Yeah, it's it's it's such a great question the absolutely, we need new customers in not that we don't love the ones we have. But again, at bar scale in this is not a criticism of many of our customers, it's a reality, they are big, big brands, lots of plants. Lots of in flexibility in their, the way they do business, right? Because a lot of times for instance, we bring them something novel, in maybe every element of their supply chain has to change. That typically is a very hard decision. Even changing the ingredient statement. Right is a big decision. So often what we do when we're doing our work and kind of our novel ingredient is we gotta run multiple paths. We are always trying to get in front and working with existing customers, making sure they understand the technology that we're bringing to bear. And you know what, they're always curious. It and we do the team work super hard to have good relationships. So, you know, we have lots of things all the time in r&d with our customers. But the reality of food, or at least our experience is is even more so now as we come out of COVID. It's it's it's the disruptors that the small Shall we call them challenger challenger brands, who are quick to adopt, we have nothing to lose, right? They they don't have a brand that can go, that can lose some connection because they try something new. It's completely the opposite. We're finding brands, we got to make sure they're well capitalized, well run, you know, good people, because it's expensive for us to work with small companies that can take our stuff and really carry it forward. And that's what we're generally trying to do is running those parallel tracks, small customers, big customers oversimplification. There's plenty in between as well, but
Roger Hurni 30:50
there's gonna be customers or the consumers leaning that way to where they're not willing to buy the your mom or grandfather's flour off the shelf at the grocery store. And they're looking for flour from Bay State Milling, like Bay State Milling is a really cool name for flour product, and it feels it feels no matter how large of an organization you are, because you're certainly very large. But it feels homespun inish in a way. Yeah. So you know, I know.
Pete Levangie 31:25
Yeah. Family. Oh, really? Yeah.
Roger Hurni 31:27
Yeah. And that's that, that's a great DTC product can easily be its own massive revenue stream for you. Well, you, I love this. I love the story. And there's been some really interesting learnings with how you have to deal on the b2b side eventually work with those partners, and help shift consumer behavior. I had to just one last question and end every show of this question p because I sometimes think that what you don't do is as important as what you do. And so my question to you, and hopefully you'll be able to answer this. What is the worst advice you've ever gotten?
Pete Levangie 32:16
I think the worst advice that I got was when I moved back here, I'm up. I'm up here. No one knows where I am. I'm, our headquarters are in historic Quinsey, just outside of Boston mass. And this is where I grew up. After college, I went to Cargill, as you referenced, I lived all over the place, and then did lots of other things that were of interest to me. So I've kind of lived over, but we came back here just over 15 years ago. And when I came back, it was after my startup work. You know, it wasn't like I had all the financial freedom in the world, we had three small kids who came back for family reasons. And that was a like, really important kind of inflection professional inflection point that a lot of people, you know, arrive at, for different reasons. And I was thinking, you know, and I love I'm sort of drawn to the new and in the different, and I just done some startup. So I was thinking, oh, you know, I should pursue, you know, a total reboot of the career. You know, we sort of live on the fringe, my experiences at food with some of the life science work and the convergence of kind of the here's the point. What I ended up doing, is working for an incredibly mature family owned company, the worst of advice I got was a number of people say, Pete, the worst thing you could do is go work for a fee, the non family executive at the family owned company, they never treat you right. You know, they're, they're slow. They, they, they they're usually undercapitalized, they want to dividend it all out. And I'll tell you, it's been completely the opposite in in and it isn't to say that every family company is a great company. But I guess the takeaway Roger is, you know, professionally, do your diligence. Always I tell my kids This makes sure you understand who all where the real decision makers are. And that that starts at ownership. Right? And so I know there's a reality and I'm not degrading it or it's different, you know, public companies. Take a look at who's on the board. Understand who that that executive suite is. If your private equity owned, make sure you know who that private equity shop that's really driving the show, you know, those kinds of Thanks. And in this case, yeah, I, you know,
Roger Hurni 35:03
worked out, I have come to learn over the years after speaking to many people in your position, size of company is completely irrelevant to someone's connection to it. It comes down to the core values of that company in aligning with your core values, and the culture of that company. And that's not a size thing. There are huge companies that have an amazing culture that work for me and might not work for you. And there are other small companies that are horrible at their culture. And there are small companies that are really great at their culture. And that's, that's the thing you have to find. And you clearly found it with Bay State. And so that's amazing. You had been wonderful. I had been speaking with Pete Levangie, at the who's the president and CEO at Bay State Milling Company, Pete, where can people learn more about you and Bay State?
Pete Levangie 35:59
Yeah, the best place to go is to go to our website, www.baystatemilling.com or www.bsm.com. That's a great place to start in. That'll take into a lot of different directions. And, you know, is we might be close to the B word in terms of size, but we're incredibly accessible. So, you know, people are super curious. Shoot me an email. I'd love to chat with you.
Roger Hurni 36:27
That sounds wonderful. Pete, thank you again so much. I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal and we'll see you next time. Thanks, Roger.
Outro 36:38
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
