How the Grand Canyon Takes a Multigenerational Approach To Visitor Experiences With Mindy Riesenberg, Director of Marketing and Communications at Grand Canyon Conservancy
Mindy Riesenberg is the Director of Marketing and Communications at Grand Canyon Conservancy, the official nonprofit partner of Grand Canyon National Park. She has over two decades of experience as a leader in nonprofit marketing at major art museums across the US, including the Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, Texas, The Walters Art Museum in Baltimore, Maryland, and the Phoenix Art Museum in Arizona. Mindy has been a featured speaker for the American Marketing Association and the American Alliance of Museums.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Mindy Riesenberg explains the relationship between the Grand Canyon Conservancy and Grand Canyon National Park
How the Grand Canyon Conservancy transitions national park visitors to supporters and contributors
Why people financially support the nonprofit organization even if they’ve never visited Grand Canyon National Park
How to cater messaging to multiple generations with various concerns and contributions
The biggest challenge Mindy faces concerning the Grand Canyon Conservancy
What work excites Mindy the most?
What you’ll learn in this episode:
As the nonprofit partner of Grand Canyon National Park, Grand Canyon Conservancy seeks to draw attention to areas that not only affect the Grand Canyon but society as a whole. It addresses issues including climate change, Indigenous affairs, diversity, and reparations. As people become aware and concerned about these matters, the organization solicits their support, which can come in multiple forms.
According to Mindy Riesenberg of Grand Canyon Conservancy, the type of support they receive varies from generation to generation. Older generations often provide financial support, whereas younger generations, like Gen Z, often don’t. Mindy explains it doesn't mean they're not interested — Gen Z isn't contributing much money right now, but they're really interested in good works.
On this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni is joined by Mindy Riesenberg, Director of Marketing and Communications at Grand Canyon Conservancy, for a conversation about keeping all generations interested in the Grand Canyon and its social and environmental impact. Mindy explains why maintaining long-term engagement is essential, the challenges she faces, what excites her the most, and what she’s learned as a professional singer.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:34
Hello, everyone, I am Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal where I get to speak with top leaders changing customer behavior so they can propel their brands forward. Before I get to today's very special guest. This episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we use behavioral science to create meaningful moments of brand trust, which influences how people interact, engage with companies. Our behavioral approach taps into your audience's motivation and prompts them to shift behavior. And if you're not shifting your audience's behaviors, you truly can't unlock all of your brand's potential. These behavioral models are proven and are the strategic foundation for your brand success. Visit offmadisonave.com to learn more. All right. And without further ado, in full disclosure, she's a friend. She's a client. She's an amazing person. I have with me today. Mindy Riesenberg who is the Director of Marketing and Communications at the Grand Canyon Conservancy. She has more than 20 years of experience as a leader in nonprofit marketing, including major art museums across the US like the Kimbell Art Museum in Texas, the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore, and the Phoenix Art Museum. Mindy is also a graduate fellow of the leading for change Arizona, and has been featured speaker for the American Marketing Association, the American Association of museums in the Andy Harvey indigenous youth media workshop, as well as many, many universities across the country. I also happen to know she's a professional singer sings like a songbird and more importantly, maybe she's a dog mom. So Mindy, welcome to the show. Did I get anything wrong there or screw anything up?
Mindy Riesenberg 2:20
Oh, no, not at all. The dog mom part is really important.
Roger Hurni 2:25
Is it design the dog dad? I totally get it. So why don't we jump right into it? Because I think there could be some confusion between the Grand Canyon as in the park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. So why don't you go over the differences between that and how the conservancy works?
Mindy Riesenberg 2:44
Sure. So the national park system, each park, most parks have a park partner or a friend's association. So Grand Canyon Conservancy is the nonprofit partner, the official nonprofit partner of Grand Canyon National Park. And what that means as we raise money for pretty much everything that happens in a park, I think a lot of people feel oh, they drive in, they pay their $35 at the entrance. And they think that those fees are covering all of the work that's going on at Grand Canyon National Park, that just covers some of the infrastructure goes into a pool of money for the entire National Park Service. And of course, Grand Canyon being larger does get some more of that money. But it's not the kind of money that covers trail restoration, keeping the trails safe. All of the work we're doing with our indigenous partners, all the educational programming that's done at the park, historic building, preservation, wildlife, and flora and fauna and all the critical research we're doing for climate change. All of that is funded by Grand Canyon Conservancy and its members.
Roger Hurni 3:49
That's perfect. So hopefully people will understand now the complete difference. The The thing about the park itself, though, is obviously it's one of the seven wonders of the world. I know for many people is a bucket list destination. I have done everything you can do in the parks. I'm doing a little humblebrag here with rafting, you know through the entire thing and driving to Cape solitude and a four wheel drive and hiking rim to rim about a dozen times have a super high falls. I'm not sure there's anything I haven't done. I'm one of 6 million visitors every year. I think I got that number right that come to the park. How important is it? Or how do you get a lot of those people to make the leap from visitor to contributor and supporter.
Mindy Riesenberg 4:34
It generally starts in our stores with our first time visitors. Only 1% of the people who visit Grand Canyon actually go below the room and actually experience what you're talking about that in Inner Canyon experience down on the river or between the walls of the canyon, seeing the wildlife and seeing the solitude of being in Grand Canyon. So most people, 99% of people just come drive up, look at the view of wind stick a few pictures for Instagram and their families. And then they generally will go into the big store, we have a bunch of stores at the park. But the big store at the Visitor Center is actually a Grand Canyon conservancy store. So when you were shopping in any of the GCC stores, that money is going back into the park priority project. So know that you're spending good money when you are shopping in those stores. But most first time visitors will go in and see hey, look, I can become a member of GCC and get a discount at the same time. Right? So easy entry to becoming a GCC member, our store staff is so knowledgeable, these are all people who also hike the canyon know the canyon, and they basically will talk to you about you know why it's so important to be a member, all the projects that we're working on. At Grand Canyon, we work at the pleasure of the park, right, we are told by the superintendent of the park, what these priority projects are that they need money for. And we support that. So you can become a member for 35 bucks a year. At the visitor center store, any of our stores if you happen to be in them, you get a discount on your on your purchase. And now you're a member right? But beyond that, then it's you'll get start getting communication from us, right all the marketing materials, our magazine comes out a couple times a year, which is a full color glossy magazine, emails, information about events, you get invited to virtual event zoom events where you can talk to and hear from the superintendent of Grand Canyon National Park as well as the CEO of GCC and ask questions about what's going on. And so we really start trying to get people engaged in what's happening at Grand Canyon. And most people, you know, either you are invested in the environment, in the environment, in climate change, you care about Indigenous Affairs, you may care about hiking trails, you may care about education, there's so many different things that you can contribute to. So there's a lot of ways to get new members through different avenues of what we're doing. Because not everybody wants to give money to the same thing, right?
Roger Hurni 7:22
No, they don't. But I think I'm going to translate this for listeners. What I love about the subtext of that is many destinations, think that we're marketing to people to come and see us for that day or that time period, whatever how many days you're going to be there, you and the and the conservancy take this longer term approach that you've got, the work happens before the visit, the actual visit, but then the Grand Canyon mean particular it's one of those, I go there once I might talk about it for the rest of my life, at least for the next 10 years. And those are all opportunities to continue the conversation with Park fans to be able to keep their membership up or enjoy the park and virtual kinds of ways. And I think that's a very unique approach that I think a lot of other parks, and maybe they don't necessarily have the cachet of Grand Canyon, but it seems like that's an opportunity for a lot of other destinations. Am I wrong there? You agree?
Mindy Riesenberg 8:24
Yeah. No, I mean, a lot of people never come back again, right. We also have supporters who've never been to Grand Canyon National Park, but they care about the National Park System, or they care about the environment again, or they care about specific things. And especially for Arizona residents, right? Grand Canyon has a lot to do with what's happening with the future of water here. Right, the Colorado River Runs Through Grand Canyon National Park. And we are part of the discussions around what's happening with water in in this state. And so if you want, you know, water delivered to your house in Arizona, and you want to be part of that conversation, Grand Canyon is actually part of that conversation as well. So supporting Grand Canyon Conservancy and Grand Canyon National Park is important for those people as well. And you may never have been here. But it's a whole different reason to be supporting the work that we do within the park, on the river in climate change studies. You know, so there are many inroads to being a part of Grand Canyon National Park without ever having to come here, although I highly advise that people come if they can, you know? Well,
Roger Hurni 9:41
I mean, you basically are giving me a props to my next question because it's, you know, the environment there even though it looks like solid rock, from the viewpoint, it's pretty fragile environment in and between the water and the wildlife and all of that has to be kept in balance. And there's been this trend in tribal of responsible recreation. Do you find yourself having more of those kinds of conversation? And how and how is that trend impacted the organization?
Mindy Riesenberg 10:12
Oh, sure, absolutely. Because, you know, one of the things that we do is, we fund all the maintenance for the corridor trails, which are the main trails that people take in and out of the park. And in order to keep them safe, you know, they need to be maintained literally day to day, because the weather changes in Grand Canyon constantly. And, as a matter of fact, just recently, because of the weather that we've had, we've had rock slides, we've had boulders in the way we've had parts of trails closed. And that work is funded by Grand Canyon Conservancy in order to clear those and make it safe for any of the visitors that want to come down our trails. And then the other thing I would say, as you know, the big picture is we preserve and protect Grand Canyon National Park for the future, right for your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, for future generations, because we don't want things to change. We aren't building, you know, trams and amusement parks throughout Grand Canyon, we want to keep it as pristine, as natural as possible.
Roger Hurni 11:20
You know, you talk about that generations. And I know in marketing as a whole, outside of even the travel and recreation tourism space. You know, everyone's like, Oh, you know, millennials? Because they're so massive. And now it's like, everything's about Gen Z. How are you seeing that shift in demographic of parks supporters? And do you do something different for each of those sorts of generations?
Mindy Riesenberg 11:49
We do. I mean, you just can't, as you know, you can't market to these groups in the same way. You know, Gen Z, isn't giving a lot of money right now. But they're really interested in good works.
Roger Hurni 12:04
Right? You don't need, you don't need to have them give a lot of money, where you need to have them do is be interested. Yeah, I talked about Yeah.
Mindy Riesenberg 12:13
They're not gonna be big donors right now. But they could join at $35 a year. Right. Or they could volunteer. We have volunteer projects that people can do at the park, you know, any little thing, it's really with the younger generation, I'm seeing much more interest in making the world a better place, right. So part of that is preserving our beautiful natural wonders. Climate change is a big thing for young people. And then on top of that, one of the biggest initiatives at Grand Canyon right now is our Indigenous Affairs initiatives. We have 11 tribes that are affiliated with Grand Canyon, and they were forcefully, forcibly removed from the park in order to create this national park. And that is a history that hasn't been talked about a lot has been whitewashed. You go to the parks, and you just see all these monuments to white male explorers. And there were people here who were living here first, and they are still here, they and working with us. And we are at that point now where we're talking about that we're working with the tribes to bring their voices back to the park. And that's also really important to the younger generation.
Roger Hurni 13:33
You know, that's, that, again, I like to do translation into learning for listeners. I think too many people see a Grand Canyon Park, because it's one thing it's like, oh, this this giant, you know, eroded hole in the crown, for lack of a better word. But but it's, it's many things. It's, it's it is about indigenous issues, right? It is the the younger generation caring about the environment. And that's a whole different set of messaging. It is about the beauty of it is the nature of it. It's the adventure of hiking or river rafting, or in the very unique amount, or very tiny amount of people that actually go to the North Rim where it's, it's all pine trees, and it's just, you, there's all these different micro environments. So I got to imagine that there's just a plethora of messages that you have to constantly be creating for all these kinds of different behavioral archetypes. I mean, this, how do you keep all that straight?
Mindy Riesenberg 14:40
It's difficult we, what we do is since we are the partner of the park, we try to keep it to four main themes if we can, but those themes may encompass a lot, a lot. And so, you know, there's just the good thing is There's always something we can talk about, especially on social media. When we're connecting with our, our followers, the bad thing is, is there's always something to talk about, because it's like, how do you focus, right? We're not just one thing to the park, and the projects at the park are not just one thing, there's just so much depth to what goes on here. I mean, just like any visit to the park, and not every visit is different, you come and the lights different, even if you don't go below the rim, your visit, the second time is gonna be different than your first tide, because the way that the Kenyan looks is different, in different light, in different weather, you know, you may encounter a different, you know, arranger on one, and maybe you'll go to Desert View on another and learn more about indigenous heritage. So I mean, there's a lot going on at the park. So we do have to kind of narrow it down. And we do have some overarching themes that we have to go with in order to make it work for marketing. And also to keep that message consistent throughout the organization. Because, you know, besides Marketing and Communications, being in charge of that message, we have so many different departments that have to use that message, right, our philanthropy department going out and asking for money or finding donors. We also have an E commerce and a on site retail program. We have a field Institute, which is for hikes and tours at the canyon. And, you know, we have so much going on. And everybody needs to be on point with the same kind of messaging, even though it's so wide.
Roger Hurni 16:37
I think the lesson here is if you come to the park and stand at the rim and look in and leave in five minutes, you're you're missing out on a lot of opportunity to really, to really experience the park, even if you only come for one day. I know that whenever I go, there it is. It always feels really, really special. And I think the the conservancy clearly does a lot of great work to keep it you know, in a way that like you said, you want future generations to enjoy it. All right. So things are going well. The canyon has been there for a gazillion years not going anywhere.
Mindy Riesenberg 17:14
The river might somewhere though.
Roger Hurni 17:19
What What's the biggest challenge that you're facing right now with the conservancy? What's what's keeping you up at night?
Mindy Riesenberg 17:26
What's keeping me up at night? That's a good question.
Roger Hurni 17:31
That's why I asked it.
Mindy Riesenberg 17:32
I know, you're so good. You know, what concerns me is kind of what I was just alluding to with? Well, the river might be gone. Yeah. If we lose the flow of water through the Colorado River, that changes everything down at the bottom of the canyon, it kills the river industry. The fish don't live in that water, the wildlife that surrounds it, the beaches, it will change, possibly how the rock and geology of the canyon down there starts to weather or road or everything will change. And we worry about that every day about climate change. As we are speaking today, there is a water release going on for the first time in many years into the canyon from the dam, and that that's happening. And that will help to rebuild some beaches along the river, great for the river trips that go along the Colorado. But you know, this year was an anomaly. Or we could have another wet year that that the amount of water we had this year was great. But it's not going in the big scheme of things to make a difference.
Roger Hurni 18:58
No, it's not going to one year is not going to do or erase a 20 year drought, as well as how much water we use as as a people from that river, I think. And now I'm gonna go off on the marketing thing. And now we're gonna go to environmental stuff, but I don't think the Grand Canyon the Colorado River, I mean, I don't think it even goes to Mexico anymore. Right? I think it's the flow stops before?
Mindy Riesenberg 19:24
I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I don't know for sure.
Roger Hurni 19:27
I know that it's obviously a major issue. And I can totally understand where that is something that keeps you up at night. I don't want to end on that kind of a note.
Mindy Riesenberg 19:36
But when it comes, you want to talk about marketing. So when it comes to marketing, you know, what keeps me up? Not from a marketing perspective, is just how do we engage? You know, Gen Z, and millennials like everybody else, trying to do the same thing. I'm to keep them hooked, to be interested in and making sure that their contributions continue over many years. And it's not just a one off thing, we came to the canyon, it's cool we'll give for a year. But how do we keep them engaged in all of the issues that are happening in Grand Canyon. And you know, part of that is by relating these issues to things that are happening in the rest of the world, or the rest of the state or in their neighborhood? Because all of this stuff is bigger picture climate change, you know, Indigenous Affairs and diversity, or reparations, these are bigger issues that aren't just at Grand Canyon. So it's keeping people engaged with that, and getting them to realize the Grand Canyon is part of that picture. Part of that conversation.
Roger Hurni 20:53
Yeah, I know, with other nonprofits, the conversations are always really important about the challenges and demonstrating that. But I, I always feel like that needs to be tempered with the successes. Because if you feel like, it's just another problem, another problem asking for money to solve a problem without seeing some of the success. You don't necessarily feel like you're making headway. And I always think that's an important lesson for nonprofits to market and talk about some of the successes at the same time, like today, the river flow, right. I mean, you know, the rivers flowing today. And I know that that does an immense amount for the for the environment down of the of the, at the bottom of the canyon, and the canyon as a whole, but I don't I don't think most people know that, that the
Mindy Riesenberg 21:43
people always talk about successes, you know, I'm usually what I happy up person, right? You asked me that what was keeping me up at night, that
Roger Hurni 21:54
was also a learning opportunity for other people in your position to pull lessons from it. So I have gotten out of the
Mindy Riesenberg 22:00
way. What worries me, which is probably why it was so difficult to cut, you know, I mean, yes, that stuff worries me, but from a marketing perspective, and what GCC does, and has done with Grand Canyon, it's amazing, the work that our members make possible. It's amazing. I mean, we bring underserved kids to the canyon, who would never be able to get here otherwise, we even do remote, you know, educational programs for the schools that can't get here. You know, we keep the trails up, we are trying to save endangered species, you know, along the river and within the canyon, we have made headway on some endangered species, or, Oh, God, you're gonna want to redo this. So endangered species, but also some of the plants that are throughout the canyon, we have a garden that we have created, where we have seeds for all the plants, we don't lose the plants that are there. You know,
Roger Hurni 23:08
you have your own SIBO like they have in Norway.
Mindy Riesenberg 23:11
We plant we grow plants at the greenhouse to make sure that if we need to replace plants that have been destroyed, we will be able to do that with the same type of plant. Nice. Yeah, it's like a seed ball in a way. Yeah, like the end of the world.
Roger Hurni 23:28
Well, let's say the other side of my book, keep you up at night question. Just immediately, what are you really excited about? What's what's happening now? Is there something you're looking forward to in terms of the Conservancy in the park?
Mindy Riesenberg 23:41
Yeah, there's lots to be excited about. One of them is the Indigenous Affairs work that we're doing. We are the first national park in the national park system that is really creating a an intertribal cultural heritage site for our tribal members. Where there will be interpretation and exhibits and you know, food at art, all hosted by the tribal members that are affiliated with Grand Canyon working with us, but but hosted by them. We are going to have the tribes tell their own stories. We're currently working on a welcome video. Currently, if you go to the visitor center, there was always a video welcoming you to Grand Canyon has a bunch of white people. Naughty naughty dog Grand Canyon is awesome. It's old. Were the process of creating a new one. And this one is a welcome video from the 11 tribes and we have representatives from each tribe welcoming people to the canyon because they still want people to come and learn and see the canyon but to understand that they are still here that their traditions are still going on and how they work with the park and how they work with the canyon with this layer. means to them, and how to respect this land when you come to visit it. So we're really excited about that that should be finished this year. So that's an exciting project we're working on as well.
Roger Hurni 25:10
Nice. Nice. All right, I got a kind of a weird question for you. And I get my final question. Can you really wonderful your time, and I don't want to take up too much of it. But I have heard you sing. So I know that I know that you're a professional singer in your spare time. Are there any lessons that you learn from professionals that you may have carried over to your role at GCC?
Mindy Riesenberg 25:33
Well, look, I'm I've been a performer since I was a kid. That and as the person who does marketing and communications, you know, the lessons learned or just, you know, speak well speak clearly get your point across. All right. You know, I love talking to people and talking about Grand Canyon. And so you know, I don't know, breathe from your diaphragm. Is that what Okay?
Roger Hurni 26:00
Well, you know, being concise, and I've been known to be very verbose, but, you know, in seeing, you know, you're trying to tell a story, I think a lot and be sure that tell that story well, and succinctly is, I think the quality of a great song. And I can see that that's also the quality of a great marketing message. And that would be my parallel. Yes,
Mindy Riesenberg 26:25
you're right. Yeah. Telling a story and telling it well, and the emotion behind that story, being able to impart that.
Roger Hurni 26:36
Nice. Alright, you again, have been wonderful your time I have one last question. I every show this way. Hopefully, this is not out of the blue for you too much. Because they believe what you don't do teaches you as much as what you do do. And so I'm kind of curious, what's the worst advice you've ever gotten?
Mindy Riesenberg 26:58
Oh, my God, the worst advice I've ever gotten.
Roger Hurni 27:03
I'm pretty on the spot. Yeah. The worst advice, hopefully. Hopefully, it was not hiring my agency.
Mindy Riesenberg 27:11
We love working with Off Madison Ave. Wasn't that at all? The worst advice I ever got? Oh, God, I'm gonna think of it after we get off this podcast.
Roger Hurni 27:23
I can let you totally off the hook on this question. If it's too if it's too difficult, you know,
Mindy Riesenberg 27:30
love had a lot of bad advice.
Roger Hurni 27:33
Nothing you can share.
Mindy Riesenberg 27:36
On camera, no, I'm blanking on this. I'm so sorry.
Roger Hurni 27:41
Mindy, it's totally fine. It's totally fine. I know that I've gotten quite a bit of advice, quite a bit of bad advice. Oh, God, I worked for an agency that's not on my LinkedIn profile. It stopped. I don't ever talk about it. But I'm the owner of this agency said to me, everybody that works for you. And everybody, every one of your clients need to be here for you. And I was thinking, shouldn't they be here for the opposite work? Yeah, the quality of the work and how smart everybody is here. And yeah. It was, it was really really bad. It was really, really bad.
Mindy Riesenberg 28:21
I can't I have good for you, though. Oh,
Roger Hurni 28:24
you know what we can do that as a follow up show. Just one show on bad advice that people have gotten. You have again, wonderful with your time. I really appreciate the conversation today. And for everyone. I have been speaking with Mindy Rosenberg. She is the Director of Marketing Communications at the Grand Canyon Conservancy. Mindy, where can people learn more about you and the conservancy,
Mindy Riesenberg 28:48
so they can go to Grand canyon.org And that is our website.
Roger Hurni 28:53
All right, that sounds wonderful. Thank you, everyone. I am Roger Hurni. This is From Persona to Personal and we will talk to you next time.
Outro 29:02
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
