A "Smashing" Conversation With Carl Bachmann, President and COO of Smashburger
Carl Bachmann is President and COO of Smashburger. He oversees the company’s leadership team and the entire brand, which includes more than 300 corporate and franchise restaurants operating in 35 states and eight countries. With more than 30 years of professional experience under his belt, Carl specializes in real estate selection, construction, operations, sales, team building, and the formation of hospitality companies.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Carl Bachmann explains the difference between Smashburger pre-pandemic versus post-pandemic
How Carl would have navigated the pandemic differently in retrospect
Why Smashburger leaped past popular kiosks for customer ordering and went straight to ordering on personal devices
How Smashburger is working on using its app to personalize the dining experience
The ways Smashburger introduces itself to new customers to get repeat business
Why Smashburger plans to implement virtual drive-thrus
Carl shares some new items Smashburger is working on behind the scenes
The best advice Carl has ever received
What you’ll learn in this episode:
We know how hard the restaurant industry was hit by the pandemic. It was devastating. A February 2022 headline from CNN declared, “The restaurant business will probably never recover from Covid.” However, it’s possible that some restaurants and restaurant chains actually improved their situation during the pandemic.
The national restaurant chain Smashburger thrived during the pandemic. Restaurants that leaned into technology over that time emerged from it in better shape than before. With more than three decades of hospitality experience under his belt, Carl Bachmann of Smashburger explains, “We started to kind of embark on that at Smashburger fall of 2019 and, boy, thank God we did because when March of 2020 happened, and the world changed forever, it accelerated that need for digital, accelerated the need for takeout business, and accelerated the need for digital and delivery. So luckily, we were positioned well.” As a result, Carl says they were “pandemic positive” with sales gains and improved culture.
In this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni sits down with Carl Bachmann, President and COO of Smashburger, for a conversation about the aggressive approach that Smashburger took to come out of the pandemic stronger than it was before. Carl talks about why he wishes they were even more aggressive in handling the challenges of the pandemic, the returns you get when you treat people like you want to be treated, and how they managed to improve the culture at Smashburger.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
“Success Is Just a Hint Away With Kara Goldin, Founder and CEO of Hint Inc.”
“Getting Personal About Pizza with Erik Frederick, CEO of UNO Restaurants”
“Taco Teachings With Anthony Valletta, President at bartaco”
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is from From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:31
Hello, everyone, I am Roger Hurni, the host of this show where I get to speak with top leaders in food and beverage. If you love this episode, please go check out my other ones. I have one with Eric Frederick the CEO or Pizzeria Uno, Kara Goldin, the founder of Hint butter, and Anthony Valletta, the president of bartaco. Before we get to today's guest, I wanted to let you know that today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust, influence how people interact and engage with brands. There is a science behind tapping into your audience designers and motivation. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can truly unlock all of your brand's potential. The proven models and methods of behavior design is the strategic foundation for your brand's success. With that, I am very happy to have Carl Bachmann, who is the president of Smashburger. Carl manages the company's leadership team and oversees the entire brand, which includes more than 300 corporate and franchise restaurants operating in 35 states and eight countries. As a true leader of Smashburger. He is always focused on driving better results for his restaurants while honoring the expectations and a parent company with more than 30 years of professional experience under his belt. Carl specializes in real estate selection, construction, operation sales and team building plus the formation of hospitality companies. That's a lot on Carl's plate. I don't even know how he has time to have a personal life with Carl, welcome to the show.
Carl Bachmann :31
Thank you, Roger, it's a pleasure to be here.
Roger Hurni 2:15
Well, that's quite a bit. I know you've been with quite a bit on your resume. You've been with Smashburger, I think more than five years now, if I'm not mistaken, considering that that five years began, we're gonna jump right into the meat right. Before that, we'll see that five years again, for the pandemic. And now that we're approaching, hopefully, the end of the tunnel, the pandemic, that feels like 20 to 25 years in normal business history condense. So, with that, you've gone through this unprecedented five year period, what's different now? Smashburger? Versus what happened? What was it like before the pandemic? And quite frankly, how did you navigate the pandemic? And there's three questions there. But um, I wanted to get a sense of that history and what you were able to do to get through it.
Carl Bachmann 3:05
Okay, well, great. Yeah. And it's been a it has been a whirlwind tour of last five years. I joined Smashburger. A little over five years ago, as the CEO at the time, we are a privately held, and we are partners with a company called Jollibee Foods Corporation, who later on in late 2018, early 2019, but complete ownership of Smashburger. And that changed the path of the brand. In a great way, it was very exciting time for the brand. And in 2019, I then became Epcot elevated to the role of president and took on that role sometime around August of 2019. So that was an exciting time for me personally. But more importantly, it was a time to put the brand in the right direction. Jollibee has a very high standard high expectations focused on taste and people and quality. And so we were honored to be have that as our partner and our owners, part of the Jollibee family. So it's really exciting time. So around fall of 2019, we started putting in place my plan and put together what I call my five point plan to really make sure that the company was ready for growth. Jollibee is one of the largest restaurant operation companies in the world. And their goal is always to grow. The chairman always says dream big. So it's a very exciting place to work and exciting person to work for. So with that being said, I put a five point plan together which really focused around building a team infrastructure, focusing on probably the most important thing to Jollibee and that's premium, high quality taste, taste profile. That's the best in our industry best in our segment, redefining our portfolio, both from a real estate perspective, but also from the really the inside the four walls and how the restaurant looks and feel FSC which is kind of the MO of Jollibee which stands for food quality service cleanliness and condition In our restaurants, that's kind of our audit plan system plan to really evaluate operations to make sure they're meeting the requirements of Jollibee. But more importantly, our guests, and then finally, position the brand for growth position to brand correctly and, and really kind of shout to the world that Smashburger is ready to grow and excited to be part of the GFC family. So we started to kind of embarked on that it Smashburger fall of 2019. And I think everybody knows what happened in I guess, March of 2020. So luckily, we had taken some really good steps understanding that the world was changing, though, has changed much faster than expected. And what I'm really referred to as digital transformation, where business has had to change and we knew it's smashed, we had to change. So we actually started really working on on our technology, on our apps on our websites. From the day I started as president and we focused in on quality and taste, technology, and then really getting the word out. And I decided to go what I say wide instead of deep and negotiated deals with all the major aggregators, third party delivery companies. And we put all those pieces in place in the fall, the late fall of 2019. And boy, thank God we did, because when March of 2020 happened and the world changed for forever, it accelerated that need for digital accelerated the need for takeout business and accelerated the need for digital and delivery. So luckily, we were positioned well, and, you know, we coined the phrase, when the pandemic hit, we said, we're going to be pandemic positive, not only in sales, but culturally. And, and so we decided to be aggressive during the pandemic, mainly to keep our people working to keep our restaurants open. But when everybody else was shrinking, we were expanding. So ironically, it's crazy. It's been 2020 and 2021, are the two best years in sales growth in history of the brand.
Roger Hurni 6:58
So it's been a crazy five years, but our business has changed drastically, knowing what you know, now, you went through it obviously spectacularly well, would you do anything differently?
Carl Bachmann 7:10
I don't think so. I think we, we really, were well prepared, I think we probably would have been more aggressive, maybe maybe a little more aggressive in in our innovation and really raising the bar and the quality of our products. You know, we increase the size of our bond increased the size of our burger, we brought certified Angus beef back to the brand, really key tenants of our business, high quality, artisan cheeses and high quality applewood smoked bacon and, and really focused on taste. And then we launched our most successful limited time off forever, was our smoked bacon brisket burger. And I probably would have launched that sooner, I would have launched our scorching chicken sandwich, which we're relaunching again, this week, actually, I would have done that sooner. So I guess a lot of the things we did, we just would have accelerated faster, knowing that there was a demand for that. And, you know, I think people were looking for comfort, comfort in uncomfortable times. And if we had just done that a little faster, I think that would probably been our probably the one change we probably would have made.
Roger Hurni 8:10
But I, it's great that you have a learning. I know that a lot of the C suite people other companies I speak with, they talk about how the considered dining experience really changed during COVID. And you seem to be really poised for growth, we talked about that digital transformation. Not that everybody's coming into the restaurant, you you negotiated the deal for third party delivery services. It sounds like to me that by this line, you shifted for the new consumer behaviors before the new consumer behaviors even set in place. Was that by design or was some of that by just circumstance.
Carl Bachmann 8:55
I think it was by design, because we were watching the industry. And I fully believed that we were behind digitally. And I still think we're behind. And we're still very focused on that. And I thought that the world was changing quickly. And all the COVID did was was ramp up that speed. So I think I think by design, we went to a digital format, we started focusing on that kind of business, understanding that our takeout business and eating outside of the home might change. Understanding that delivery drive throughs virtual drive thru. And understanding that our was all evolving and understanding our technology was behind. I really wanted to leapfrog some of the technology. So for instance, a lot of restaurants had put kiosks in pre pandemic, a lot of especially with QSR, not so much fast casuals as like we are but a lot of QSR had done that with success. And that was something that Smashburger had not done. And we had JFC looked at that, and especially looked at that. And we said let's leapfrog that past that because I really want Leave personal devices are the future of all ordering. And we wanted to make sure that we were on the cutting edge of that. So we kind of leapfrog past the technology that we had created. So I think by design, as opposed to by luck, though, I'm sure there was little luck that we moved quickly. But again, I give kudos and props to my parent company, because they gave us the ability to do that, you know, it gave us the support financially and emotionally say, we want to be aggressive. And we need to change the format of our business, you know, pre pandemic, 65% of our business was dying in at the height of the pandemic, my tiny percentage was 1%. And yet, we had double digit growth in 2020, and 2021. So you had to transition the business to survive. So we said, do we survive? Or do we thrive? And that's where that pandemic positive came into play. We said, We're coining that phrase, pandemic positive, we're going to be aggressive, we're gonna thrive, because survival is just not good enough. And that's been our kind of our marching orders since so I think by design would be the answer to your question.
Roger Hurni 11:03
I love that I love the pandemic positive. If I use it, and more than likely, it will be sure to give you credit. Thanks. We'll be here deeper into the digital transformation. And that digital first idea, because you can clearly see in your numbers on the behavior of customer change, and you were able to stay way ahead of that curve. Everybody wants a native app, everybody needs to get to a level of personalization within the context of paper that you mentioned, that you believe orderings always going to happen on that app paying is having on we be accelerated probably a 20 year growth plan of paying in cash, but regular credit cards, even tapping credit cards into we're gonna pay with our phone where you're paying your QSR codes, you have an app, how are you using that app? To really personalize that dining experience? What are you doing there that might be unique?
Carl Bachmann 12:00
Well, we're actually working on it now. You know, I think that the thing for us is, there's so many more pieces of the puzzle, text order, voice to order, and more convenience with the app. So we're starting to evolve our app now to actually go into the future of transitions, in our app, and on our website. I think complacency is the problem. So you can't be complacent. One of the things that I do think is simplicity is king, speed is king. And if you're taking too many steps in your apps, or your websites to place orders, you make it difficult. So you have to look at conversion rates and abandonment rates, and really understand what the consumer is doing. So we're studying now, our app and our website, taking a deep dive and studying, where are we losing gas? Where is it difficult? Where are order problems? What can we do to make it easier. So what I think is sometimes less is more. So we're really focused on how we can make it silly simple for the consumer, how we can add other technology like I mentioned, voice ordering, text ordering, etc. So those are the big things. And I also think the advent of drive thru for fast casual and even casual dining, and not traditional drive thru, but virtual drive thru is the next step in evolution. So we're getting ready to launch our first virtual drive thru, and converting a few drive thru restaurants. So we do have to virtual drive thru. And what I mean by virtual drive thru, is taking this three step process of the traditional drive thru is right is go to that squat box, place your order, then go to the next window, make your payment, and then you get your food. Right, so a three step process. And what does that create, it creates a 40 or 50 cars stack, it creates congestion. Municipalities don't like it, you need a big footprint, a lot of square footage, you need a lot of real estate to do it. We believe that the virtual drive thru using your phone, using your personal app can create a one stop shop and one transaction experience where we simply have someone place an order. And they tell us when they're going to be there or we tell them when they to be there. And they just picked up the food. So now a very busy high volume restaurant, we have a three or four cars stack. So now you don't need as much real estate. You no need to. And it's very difficult to fight for that real estate with all the all the chains that were in America trying to get that traditional drive through. So you need less real estate. It's a faster experience. It's fresh off food, we cook our food to order. So traditional drive thru doesn't really work as well for us because we got to cook our food to order. So six or seven minutes to cook great food is worth it if you're in the dining room, but seven minutes in a car is a lifetime. So we need the technology to help the guests have a better experience. So I think that's where digital is going and our apps are going. And I think you're gonna see more and more restaurants understand that the virtual drive through a single transaction, making it easier for the consumer, whether they walk in the restaurant or drive thru by the restaurant. I think that's where the direction is.
Roger Hurni 14:53
Yeah, I agree. And because you're you're obviously speaking my language whether you realize it or not. Oh, I'm when I do a lot of work in behavior design, it is about that simplification, because when you're asking somebody to change behavior or increased frequency of visits or set reminders and when their food is ready, what you need to do is have automaticity so that those behaviors happen on very, very specific prompts. And so ad companies all the time can be like, Okay, you helped us with the customer service experience to help us with the app, so that we can streamline the app to create these kinds of one to one marketing efforts. I don't think any, I think you've hit this really well. Most companies don't realize the power of their app, right, they have a smartphone, but they don't have the smart app, and it becomes this functional tuber getting stuff. QSR are a little bit ahead of the curve. In general, not as far as you it sounds like at least getting the ordering and the payment done. But there's so much you can do to marketing that one to one experience, personalizing that one on one experience, and just creating this dialogue that is ongoing, so that the once a week visitor becomes a twice a week, three times a month is better, because five times those opportunities exist. And it sounds like that's where you're going with the advent something that's the lesson you'd want to tell other people to do.
Carl Bachmann 16:24
Yeah, I think I think it's fair fair to say that that, though, that may be more and more complicated. The idea is how that complicated app breeds simplicity for the consumer. And that's what we're trying to do is create a very simple experience very easy. Very quick, I think the average person today is busier than ever doing different things working in different places. So we need to, we need to really change the way we do business in order to really anticipate those needs. So for us the simplicity of the app, by having the background and art you talked to one thing you mentioned sparked sparked something in my mind that we're also looking about is artificial intelligence and understanding what the consumer is really asking us knowing our consumer Well, you know, through the data analytics and understand what they need, what they want, you know, what we should prompt them to get how we should help them. Those are, those are the things that that we're trying to evolve to, we've done a nice job putting the basics in place. But I feel like we've just cracked open the egg. And there's so much in there. And so I think we have a long way to go digitally, at Smashburger. But I think probably in the industry. And there's there are some industry leaders that are way ahead and if their own native apps and and as we grow, we'll work towards those things. But there's a lot of opportunity out there. And I think I think it makes complete sense to keep it simple for the consumer to have a flawless quick experience. And that's what we're trying to create.
Roger Hurni 17:51
Yeah, there's something really subtle what you said that I think it's gonna get lost on listeners, because they're not reading between the lines, I'm just gonna point it out directly, there's a fundamental shift happening between third party and first party data because of privacy. And I know that there's a company that I've worked with, but they do have many AI. And what they look at is the implicit and explicit behaviors of its customers, and then that AI determines the next interaction. And that can be a deal that can be a greedy buy person, you know, that could be looking at behavioral data and make other changes, you know, for instance, and cures plays on venues or what have you. first party data is where it's at. And what you're collecting is all that first party data to make those kinds of behavioral shifts, and that I think it's the real lesson that you're doing for other for other CEOs and the presidents of organizations, because you cannot rely on third party data for advertising. It's, it's a roadie very, very quickly, Facebook and Uber are cracking down on that left and right, it feels like with every release, it just gets tighter and tighter. So that's the lesson I wanted to sort of recap that I think you just said in that context. And are you looking at some kind of customer data platform that's behavior based to help manage all that?
Carl Bachmann 19:07
Yeah, we're working through that now and investigating different. Again, part of being a part of GFC, we get the advantage of the global digital attack, really, if you want to say it that way. But I'm really understanding what what databases we're going to use. And we are starting to research all of that, and we're in the thick of that right now to understand, understand exactly how to communicate to the consumer. So you're 100% right. That's exactly what we're trying to do. And, and, and I think I think all the companies are trying to do that now, all the bigger companies are understanding that and even a small player like Smashburger, that we're a growing company, we need to, you know, it's funny, during the pandemic, we realized something also, part of my five point plan was redefining our portfolio pre pre pandemic. It was all about brick and mortar. Right? It was all about where we were and how we did it. So the playing field got leveled. It didn't matter where you were. It didn't matter what your facility looked like as much during the pandemic, what mattered was your product and your process, right. So, because of that, I think that I was eye opening to me and to the Smashburger team and said, Wait a minute, we've leveled the playing field. So we have the best product. Now we got to make sure we have the best process deliver that product or consumer and give them the best possible experience, regardless of how that experience manifests itself, whether it's a drive thru takeout order, dine in order, curbside pickup order, how do we do that and all of that the common denominators to have the right data to critique the right platforms, for? That's what that's I think, what we're learning now and what we're striving to get better at. And I think that's the key to the future of the restaurant business, certainly, in the chain business, and certainly in fast casual.
Roger Hurni 20:56
Yeah, I love the changes that you're you made in the ones that you're embarking on, I love how you're looking at the customer experience, both digitally and in store, expanding that and giving as much opportunity. What's that saying the burden, the hand is worth two in the bush? Well, let's talk about the two in the bush because there's no company, I don't care if you're, if your company has made me percent market share. I've never met a leader. We're a company you didn't say that's not they don't want to grow anymore. Everybody wants to grow. So how even as a great brand, yourself, how do you? How do you introduce yourselves to new customers and induce that trial to get them in the Smashburger family?
Carl Bachmann 21:37
Well, I mean, inside the four walls, there's a approach outside the four walls, there's approach, there's a digital approach. But one of the things that I think is important for us is, is be true to what our brand is, and that's Chef inspired and being different, crave ability. Again, during the pandemic, a lot of chains kind of shrunk their menus to make it easier, make it more simplistic. And we said, this is an opportunity to talk to the consumer, and tell them about credibility about taste is King about innovating and making a better burger. And that's really our vision to be the number one better burger brand, fast, casual, better burger brand in North America. And I think that messaging, whether it's through our, you know, our new innovations, or improving our existing product line, we've improved every single person product line. And as soon as we're done with that my QM teams and QA teams, we go back and look at again, say, how can we improve it again, because the consumer is demanding. And I think that's how you create trial. So there's a lot of things you do. inside the four walls, with how you the restaurant looks and feels, we've changed the palate, and the tone and the music and the entertainment values and all that. But that's the consumers already in your restaurant. Then there's things you do to the outside of the restaurant, you know, new logos, new signs, that those are those are, you know, very draconian, old school ways of doing things. But I think the real way is to show people through social media, through digital, and through their experiences, that we're going to give you something that's not bland. That's, that's that's flavor forward. Our scorcher chicken sandwich is hot. It's spicy. It's fun. You know, our smoked bacon brisket burger is a culinary leap forward for a fast casual burger chain. To me, that's how we create differentiation. And as more and more chains come on board, I think that's the word differentiation, what makes us different, what makes us better. I think that's how you grow business in the long term. And then having the technology to back it up. And having the ability to have access points and omni channel approach, whether it's catering which we launched this year, whether it's virtual drive thru, whether it's cubbies that people can pick up so they don't have to have an interaction, if they need to run in quick and run out quick. All those things are vital. But those are tools. You know, the strategy is having the best product out there having craveable Chef inspired culinary food for tastes and profiles that people are, they're memorable. And I think that is really how you build your business. And then you have to have all those tools to support it as which was all the digital tools we just talked about.
Roger Hurni 24:15
I love the differentiation. I love it when it comes from ship inspired. I don't know if you've made that up on a fire. That's language you use all the time if you don't use it all the time. You definitely you definitely should.
Carl Bachmann 24:27
But we do our founder. That was his vision. And he still is a food consultant for our company as well as JFC and his his me is a culinary genius. But his his idea was that people deserve a better burger. And there's so much culinary Chef inspired tastes and thoughts they can go into every burger. So we love that and that passion for it and that that does separate us and that's what we drive to be nice nice.
Roger Hurni 24:59
Love it Let me ask you a wellness guy. Couple more questions. I don't know we can we can wrap up because I think we're losing time here. But you have any. Look, it's just you and me talking right? You have any big announcements you can share?
Carl Bachmann 25:10
Well, let's see big announcements. Ah, let's see. Let me think about that. Well, we just launched scorch and chicken sandwich. That's a big announcement to us. We had that date, we had that in 2021. And we sold out during the chicken wars, you know, and we often said that we won the chicken wars being a burger joint. We thought that was kind of cool. But so we just relaunched score two chicken sandwich, and, you know, don't tell anybody, but we're testing a whole lot of chicken wings, which we're really excited about. We're just in test now. So some some products that again, if they're culinary, Ford and Chef inspired and craveable and have vibrant taste. That's what we're shooting for. So our new line of wings is going to come out. We think that's a great incremental thing with a burger restaurant. And again, scorching chicken was is was sold out the last time we did it, we we sold every chicken sandwich we could. And so we've geared back up, and we relaunched that just two days ago. So that sound really well. So I guess a couple of culinary surprises. But otherwise, just look for us growing. We're growing all over the country. And we're excited about it. All right,
Roger Hurni 26:23
I gotta give you an idea for my son, because I said I would do this. Because he loves Smashburger. And we've talked about Smashburger. He said, Why does it Smashburger run a contest that says, do a smash up burger and let the customers like decide what to create? Like, burger? Yeah.
Carl Bachmann 26:42
I'll be sure to tell you, given the given the Read, read the Batphone. To me, and let me know what he wants to do. You know, one of the things I didn't mention that we probably shouldn't talk about, but we just launched it. It took us it's been a couple of months is we were the first national chain to launch a non dairy milkshake. That's exciting. And it's a company called the clips, which makes an incredible product clips ice cream. And we're partnering with them. And we've been selling a lot of non dairy milk shakes. And I think that's unique. And I think another another part of the industry that's changing is having those options for people, though, I think vegan, and non dairy and gluten free. And all those things are very small percentages, it's becoming more and more prevalent. It's a growing brand. And one of the things that we didn't want to do to stay in kind of line with what I talked about being Chef inspired, is I didn't want to go and put a product that I thought was unhealthy for you just because it was plant based or chemical based on so we're searching for and we're right now we're working on a partnership with a company called Jack and Annie's and we're hoping to launch a possible vegan burger with them. So that's another hot off the press moment. But that and and the partnership with Eclipse where they're non dairy milkshakes, really unique things that create trial and get new consumers in and and get some experience got food forward. Great flavor, you know, that the exciting part about flavor. I think that's that's what we really strive for. So those are some some things coming up and made me think of that when you mentioned your son's idea. And I do love that idea. So
Roger Hurni 28:21
Smashburger is yours for free today. Limited time offer. Last question. I love asking you as leaders and companies because you you've dispensed a lot of great advice. For listeners. What's the best advice that you've ever gotten?
Carl Bachmann 28:36
Well, I think it's more of a personal thing. When I'm asked that question I've been asked that before. And I know it's going to sound corny, but I've always thought you should treat people the way you want to be treated. And everything with just being kind to one another. That's what we preach, I ended up almost every one of my meetings with Be kind, I treat people the way I want to be treated. That's the culture of Smashburger. And what we've created, and it nothing rang truer than when you're in the crisis of the pandemic. And just to remember that so I always say treat people the way you want to be treated. And then every meeting and every get together with just be kind to one another. And I think that's great advice, whether you're in business or in life. But I think sometimes we get so focused on all the data and the numbers we forget about the most important asset. And it's not any of the technology we talked about today or any of the restaurants. It's truly my team and my people. You know, it's always going to be people business service industry is all about people. So you got to treat them the way you want to be treated and be kind and, you know, they'll they'll help you fight the battles. So that would be my my last piece of advice. I guess what I live by every day. So
Roger Hurni 29:54
why is the word expires words. I have been speaking with Carl Bachmann, the president of Smashburger. Carl, where can people learn more about you and Smashburger?
Carl Bachmann 30:05
Well, I would go to smashburger.com. And check us out and place an order, check out a location, look at what we're doing next. See where we're growing next. So there's a lot of information there. So go to smashburger.com.
Roger Hurni 30:18
All right. And maybe one day we'll see a smasher burger contest. All right, Carl, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being on the show.
Carl Bachmann 30:27
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.
Outro 30:30
Thanks for listening to FromPersona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
