Personalizing the Private Label Experience With Brian Fox, CEO of Richelieu Foods, Inc.
Brian Fox is the CEO of Richelieu Foods, Inc. He has been in the food business for over 30 years, with extensive commercial experience in retail, food service, contract sales, and significant knowledge of operations. Brian is passionate about creating a business culture and focusing on the people in his business. He has a proven track record of building successful business units and winning teams.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Brian Fox explains why Richelieu Foods, Inc. has such tremendous staying power after 150 of business
How Richelieu Foods overcomes customer apprehension about trying private label foods
Why Brian accepted the CEO position at Richelieu Foods
The challenges Richelieu Foods has faced during Brian’s tenure and the opportunities that lie ahead for the brand
How the pandemic has changed the purchasing habits of people shopping for food
The ways Richelieu Foods markets itself to retailers
How Richelieu Foods helps retailers market private labels to consumers
The new products Richelieu Foods is working on
What’s the best advice Brian ever received?
What you’ll learn in this episode:
How do you personalize the shopping experience for grocery store customers? Do grocery items belong in specific departments, or can they be placed in areas that make it easy for customers to get what they want to create their meal plans? Can items be cross-promoted by placing some ranch dressing in the produce section, for example? Or by having some additional pizza toppings available next to the pizzas sold at the deli? How do you make the grocery shopping experience more personal?
Having grocery items available at particular locations within a store can provide customers with convenience and the motivation to buy. According to Brian Fox, CEO of Richelieu Foods, Inc., many of these opportunities are regularly missed. Brian suggests, “You can take a bottle or a set of cases of ranch dressing and put them almost anywhere in the store. I mean, how much more effective would they be in front of the party section than they are sitting as a display on the aisle of dressing and sauces?” Grocery stores should be less concerned about placing items in specific departments and instead put them where they’re most likely to be purchased.
In this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni welcomes Brian Fox, CEO of Richelieu Foods, Inc., to discuss how grocery stores can personalize the customer shopping experience. He says grocery stores are too worried about having meat in the meat department and produce in the produce department. He says that when it’s pizza night or taco night, stores should take the opportunity to introduce new taco or pizza-related products exactly where the customer finds the taco meat or the pizza in the deli.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:27
Hello, everyone, I'm Roger Hurni, the host of this show where I get to speak with top leaders in food and beverage. I've got a great one with me today. Before I do that, let's give a nod to our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments, brand trust and influence people to interact and engage with brands, there is a science behind tapping into your audience's desires and motivation. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential, the proven models and methods behavior design is the strategic foundation for your brand's success. And with that, I will let you know about our guests who today is Brian Fox. Brian is a 32 year veteran of the food business with a long career in private red meat products. He has worked for some great companies big and small ConAgra incentives and is currently the CEO of Richelieu Foods. Thank you, Brian. French is horrible…Or maybe horriblé. Which is the division of a German multinational food company called Zoot Suit. This is going to be a linguistic adventure this podcast right now. Mostly Brian is passionate about creating a business culture and a focus on people in his business. So Brian, welcome to the show.
Brian Fox 2:00
Thank you, Roger, and I'm excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation.
Roger Hurni 2:04
Well, my apologies again for butchering your introduction. You know, there's a lot of language going on there. But hopefully we got through it. I did like the fact that when I was doing some research for the interview, Richelieu again, please correct my pronunciation. Richelieu Foods is a 150-year-old company. And most people don't realize that there are these companies out there that have this amazing staying power. Why don't we start there? Right. Tell us a little, a little bit about this great 150-year-old company. Give us a little background.
Brian Fox 2:40
Yeah, exactly. So Richelieu Foods has, as you said, been around for 150 years. And in a number of guises. Over that 150-year period, I think they were in the meat business at one point in time, I think they were in some canned good business for a little bit of point in time. Currently, we're in the frozen pizza and dressing and sauces business. So we have, we have three plants that focus on making frozen pizza products, whether it's the crust or the pizza itself. And we have two plants that focus on…that focus on making dressings and sauces. We're primarily a private label business. And that's really kind of been part of the long history of Richelieu Foods has been in a business that's focused on making other products for other companies. So it's not it's definitely not a household name for sure. But if you've eaten frozen pizza out of a, out of a freezer case at your local grocery store, pretty good chance that you've had one of our pies. So we have a really large position in that business. And we're, we're fortunate to be able to have that were much smaller business on the dressing and sauces side because that business is much more fragmented across the U.S. There are a lot of very specialized players in almost every major city in the US. So that business is a bit more fragmented, but it's still a nice business to be in.
Roger Hurni 4:43
What most listeners don't know about private label. And we were having a conversation before the podcast started. Which is very, very typical. I've had quite a bit of experience in private label, working for Safeway and they don't realize that companies like yours, the quality of the private label is, is as good if not better, in a lot of cases with national brands, and people are just sort of afraid to try that. And they often they don't even realize, that they're eating a private label product at grocery stores. And, you know, so you, if you haven't done that sort of thing, I would highly recommend, you know, trying private label just because that have you come across that challenge of trying to educate people on the private label review, leave that to people you're doing private labeling for.
Brian Fox 5:35
You know, I would say it all depends, you know, when I, when I speak to family, or friends who aren't in the food business, they go, oh, so what do you do? And I tell them, and you'll get we're in private brands, they kind of go, what is, what is that? And then you kind of go well, well, where do you shop it? You know, where do you shop for groceries? Well, I shop at x, and I say, well, we make the label for that company, and then they kind of go, oh, oh, that's it? Oh, that's private label. So it's, it's funny, because depending on the business, and depending on the category, private label is in our life every day. So, you know, there are, you know, clothing stores that have you know, made their millions out of basically being a private label, clothing store, their food chains, you know, that have built very significant shares, Kroger, probably being the one who has the largest share, in private label as a whole are private brands as a whole and in their category, because they go wall to wall, and they're very, very sophisticated in how they think about that. So it's funny, it's sometimes you just kind of have to teach people the, the language of private label or private brands, and then they kind of go, Oh, I get it, I get it. But yeah, it is, I would say my experience in the 32 years in the business is that the private label quality that you get today is absolutely as good as or, if not better than the brand in many categories. We put a lot of time and effort into trying to make a really, really great product. And, and, you know, if you haven't tried, you know, product products in the private label category for a while, give it a shot again, because, you know, we're out there to help you save money. I, I think the Walmart, you know, motto is like, “save more live better?” Well, that's a little bit of kind of what the private label motto is. So, you know, save a little bit more, you know, live better do well on it, and, and we try to deliver on that.
Roger Hurni 8:10
If I'm not mistaken, you've been CEO for about 10 months now?
Brian Fox 8:06
Yeah, about 10 months here. And then I had three months at a previous company. Yes.
Roger Hurni 8:10
So why did you? Why did you take the role?
Brian Fox 8:15
Well, so the previous company, I was not in the private label business. So in my 32 year career, that was kind of the only time that I stepped outside of the private label segment. And frankly, I missed it. I love private label, there's just something about partnering with retailers to come up with new products and new ideas, and then bringing to life and seeing them on the shelf in six months, or, you know, four months at the fast pace, you know, six months, typical, or, or maybe as long as a year. But there's just something about that, that I love. Frankly, I love the dynamism of the private label segment, because it's always changing. I would say in many categories, we try to innovate in private label, sometimes in front of where the brands emulate. And that depends a little bit about the retailer that you're partnering with some retailers want to be very, very forward-looking on that. You know, we mentioned Kroger earlier that's one that was to be forward-looking. Wegmans is a bit well known in the industry is as kind of being a food-forward company and leading with private label. But I would also say you you get other people that you kind of don't think are maybe food forward and that way, you know like on all the in a Walmart they put a lot of emphasis on quality and their products. And so that dynamism of that category has just was just fun to me and I wanted to be back in this segment.
Roger Hurni 9:47
So in the 10 months that you've been there, what have been the challenges you got to deal with immediately? And what are the opportunities for the brand now?
Brian Fox 10:23
Yeah, absolutely. So I would say, the number one challenge when I walked in the door here, was around pricing and inflation. So unfortunately, the food business has gone through a massive round of inflation in the last 10 months, some of them even starting before that. But the war in Ukraine absolutely kind of put some of those particular categories into hyperinflation, you know, wheat being an example of it. So the first thing that we really had to do here was kind of get a handle on all these various inflation aspects, try to understand what's going on with the category and with the consumer, and then try to put in place a plan to try to get that pricing out in the marketplace. It's, you know, look, nobody likes pricing, I don't like to take pricing, retailers, in general don't like to take pricing. But it comes a point that, that you have to go there in the category and inflation and certainty areas were so significant, there's just no way that you could absorb those even in even in a very short term. In a very short term situation. So I would say that was kind of the number one thing, you know, number two is, we had to get some changes in the leadership team and the org structure in place. And, and we've done that, and I would say, we have a fantastic team in place. I'm super excited about people, but I get the opportunity to work with here at Richelieu. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, it's about finding the right people. And creating the right culture in an organization is what is the key to success. I mean, computers don't run themselves, in general, outside of routine tasks. Machines don't run themselves, you have to have great people to understand what needs to be done, and be able to take decisions on priorities, and push where we need to be push and pull back, or we need to pull back and getting a great team together to do that has been, you know, one of the joys in my 10 months of being here.
Roger Hurni 12:45
So I know you weren't there during the pandemic. Because now we're talking about consumer behavior shifting because of you know, you sort of mentioned it, inflation, what's happening there. You live through a pandemic and other companies, what kind of shift or any? I know, there's a lot of shifts in dining behavior when it comes to going out. I'm wondering, given your experience, are you seeing shifts in dining behavior staying in and those purchasing habits because of the pandemic? And how is that different than what's happening in the what's happening inflation now? Yeah. How was the consumer dining habits changing that time?
Brian Fox 13:31
Well, I think I think probably the biggest change that happened kind of at the start of the pandemic was a lot of consumers rediscovered cooking at home was kind of fun. I think in the US, we had gotten so used to I mean that the food service dollar had tilted to where it was 51 or 52%, were of those dollars were spent outside the home and less than less than 50 inside the home. And that was probably started happening in 2018 2019, just before the pandemic hit. So I think consumers have gotten used to just being going out is kind of the modus operandi, the pandemic, completely put that on its head and I think a lot of people rediscover, hey, this is fine. I haven't done this before. And I would say as a, as a, as a community of suppliers into the food industry. I think we've done a pretty good job of trying to give the consumer at home easier meal options, faster meal options, tastier meal options that kind of depends on your segments and retailers have done a really nice job of trying to steal that share back from the food away from home and put together meal kits and opportunities like that for them to get back in the kitchen. So, I think a lot of people rediscovered that and, and frankly rediscovered the community of sitting around the table again.
Roger Hurni 15:05
Yeah.
Brian Fox 15:08
I'll leave you with one comment on that. So, years and years and years ago, I was at a pizza National Pizza convention, I got to listen to Wolfgang Puck. And Wolfgang Puck spoke about this, this was probably 20 years ago spoke about the pizza was the perfect family food. Because it's round, and you sit at a table, and you're looking at each other. And people are sharing, you know, pulling out a piece of pizza here, a piece of pizza there. And then he said, There's something about that communal experience that makes pieces of pizza special. And I think that's one of the things we rediscovered in the pandemic.
Roger Hurni 15:49
Yeah, I have seen a lot of research. When there's a crisis, like a pandemic, or inflation, whenever there's some sort of economic oppress, there is a how do we get together? How do we feel more connected as humans, food is one of those ways that you do that and sharing the meal. And, you know, pizza is one of those affordable luxuries where you can buy it and it feels like this great party meal without the craziness of expense or preparation or anything else like that. And so it is definitely a unique category.
Brian Fox 16:30
And we know that consumers can buy a pizza, they can add some of their extra special toppings at home, they can put on the, you know, the jalapeno peppers that maybe didn't come on it. And now it feels more like I made it as a consumer as opposed to, I bought this, you know, and I'm bringing it home. So there's something a little bit special about that, too, that's easy for pieces of pizza to be customized.
Roger Hurni 16:59
Very true. Very true. Your company doesn't have, you don't do marketing directly to the consumers, because you're on the b2b side. How do you help? How do you market yourself then to those retailers? And how do you help them in turn market, that private label at all to customers? And getting across the points you just made to me?
Brian Fox 17:22
Yeah, so absolutely. Look, I was very fortunate, early in my career to work for a company called American Italian pasta company, and we happen to be the largest supplier of private label pasta. When I got there, the strategy was, we're going to teach retailers to treat their store brand, like a brand. And so when the art came through, and if it was not great art, we would go back to the retailer and say, gosh, we think you can do better on this, you know, sometimes, excuse me, retailers have their own companies that do the art. Sometimes they farm it out to a third party, sometimes they let the manufacturer design it, it's a little bit all over the place. But if it you know, we started saying, hey, you need to take advantage of this, you need to put the window here, you need to make these kind of call-offs here, you need to make the packaging, you know more appealing from either a modern, you know, a modern look on the package. Or if it had a food shot on it, hey, you got to spend the money to get a really good quality food shot, because that's part of what sells the product. And so, I've kind of taken forward that same philosophy of trying to talk to our retailers about this is a brand it's your brand. Now, the good news is, is that a much easier sell today than it was 20 years ago. But you know, 20 years ago, only a few retailers were thinking that way. I think today the vast majority of think that way. And that's, Hey, are you promoting it? Are you? Are you putting it in the ad? Are you putting pictures out so people can see it? Are you putting things out on your website? You know, how can we help you with these things? Hey, look, we're going to come to you with where we think flavor trends are and we're going to present to you new ideas for a pizza, it may only be an in and out or a product or a dressing sauce that may only be an in and out. But at least it's something that is a bit on trend that you can take advantage of. And take a look at outside of just kind of, hey, I need another you know, I need the 12 Pepperoni. No, you don't really need the 12 Pepperoni. Let's try to meet a consumer demand that maybe you don't see today.
Roger Hurni 19:45
Yeah, you know, you mentioned something in your last two answers that I want to go back in and highlight because I think there's good learnings there. You mentioned about how once you're on that pizza you can put on something like your jalapeno peppers or whatever kind of topping you really like, on a personal note, all you out there eating pineapple on pizza, stop it. I'm from New York don’t do that. However, personalization is a big deal. And, and while you might not have direct consumer access, that doesn't mean you can't help retailers personalize that pizza experience, you know, in their marketing, and it's not just buying the Brooklyn pizza, there's a convenience there, that's great. But you can also take it and personalize it to your own tastes. And there's got to be some way for you to communicate that, that that aspect of marketing to those retailers, so they can in turn, say, hey, this isn't just buying this one product, this is buying this product, but then making it your own. And I think there's a really interesting message there. Are you doing anything like that? Or that's something that that you're working on that to help retailers or do personalization that way?
Brian Fox 21:10
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think what you brought up is, is a great, great idea. It's something that I worked really, really hard to play out in the pasta category. It's a little bit more challenging in the frozen pizza category. But there is a place to do that. And that's in the pizzas that are sold in the deli. And I think you know, if you're merchandising product in a deli, you absolutely should be merchandising complimentary items around those pizzas. So that it's very, very easy for the consumer to walk by the deli case, oh, there's a pizza you know. Everybody likes a pizza night. It's you know, it's a 20-minute meal. Between your oven heating up and all that other good stuff. Because if not, hey, look, I've got prosciutto all laid out here I want you know, arugula on, you know, as something that tops at the end. That's where I think the gold is, for retailers is particularly in that deli section because it is super, super easy to have complementary items merchandising around it. And so, we, we play in the deli segment, not as much as in some other segments. But it's definitely going to be it's in our strategy as a way to try to help retailers grow because a little bit of of my philosophy on private brand is as I said earlier, treat it like a brand. But if I can show the retailer how we can help them grow their total basket ring, then I become more important to the retailer, as a supplier than just the person who brings in a low cost. In the private label business, I think we're a little bit unique from the brand guys in the fact that, that we really have two customers, we have the consumer. And then we have the retailer. So, I've really got to make the sale twice. I've got to make the sale to the retailer who agrees to put this item in and merchandise it and all these other things. But at the end of the day, it's the consumer who picks it up and is satisfied or not satisfied, and comes back and creates that repeat. You know, trial is in the grocery business is relatively easy to get. But repeat is where it's at. So you've got to make a great product so that they come back.
Roger Hurni 24:45
There's I see your point about the deli section because you that that is definitely an area where you can do that. I can think there's some missed opportunity to cross merchandise. I see it all the time in groceries or where they don't take advantage of cross merchandising products. So, you could sell items that would typically go on a pizza that may not go on your pizzas that can people like like pineapple, right? Like I mentioned earlier. So, the cross-sell the pineapple in the produce section in the frozen food section where your pizzas are, right? Or in the meat section, you know, cross-sells some of the pizzas that are there in the frozen section while you're doing meat, right? Or when you are at produce, this would be like, hey, this also goes great on pizza across someone. Right? Those opportunities exist in a scene missed by many, many grocery store chain. Yeah, yeah, consulting for them. Right?
Brian Fox 25:44
Yeah, I totally agree with you that Roger. And that's probably even more so missed in the dressing and sauces category. Because look, you can take a bottle or a set of cases of ranch dressing and put them almost anywhere in the store. I mean, how much more effective? Would they be in front of the party section, then they are sitting over in the you know, as a display on the aisle of dressing and sauces that are there already? You're kind of like, okay, am I really stealing somebody off the shelf? To my stack? Or am I really trying to make sure that when they walk by the salad and the carrots and the and the other things that that it's there that you go? Oh, yeah, I really do you want that. And so, yeah, I would say that category lends itself easier that way. Same thing, I mean, you know, tacos sauces, or barbecue sauces that you merchandise in the in the meat section. And you'd be surprised how hard it is to get sauces like that sometimes in the in the meat, in the meat sections of a store, because you know, it's a different department at the retailer. And they kind of go well, no, that's the meat guys will control what goes in the meat area. And you're going, Hey, look, I don't, I don't care who it is, I'm just trying to build the basket for the store.
Roger Hurni 27:07
Right. And that's, I think, a lot of grocery store. You know what I'm gonna go out on a limb here, every single grocery store that I've ever worked with or come across, they are locked into, there's the produce department, there's the meat department, right, they divide up their aisles by very specific categories, I understand it makes it hard to stack applying logic bought, secondhand watching FLY kind of a thing. In retail. However, that's not consumer behavior, that people are looking at wanting to be at home more, there's an opportunity, and they would have to do the mental gymnastics to get over their own head trash on this. You don't have to change the flow of the grocery store to recognize there are certain kinds of staple meals, pizza being one of them right or Tuesday, right? Where you can take a select group of products, and cross-promote them so that when I'm standing there, I'm buying four or five items that create a meal in the context of maybe the main ingredient, you know, and those opportunities, as little micro opportunities exist throughout every aisle, and they could experimental that dedicated less shelf space, I think would make it easier for companies like yourself, to show them how they can grow that basket and do it in a unique way. And if I'm off on that you please correct me just you and I.
Brian Fox 28:40
I totally agree with you, Roger. I mean, it is I mean, what is the grocery store, in aggregate really. It's the meal store. You want to go in there as a consumer and find solutions to take home. And every family has the tried and true is that they fall back on you know, hey, it's pizza night this week or taco night. You know this, as you said on Tuesdays. But I can tell you from my wife and my experience at home, you know, she was always like, you guys have got to bring me new ideas, bring me new ideas. Well, yeah, that's the perfect place for a retailer to really stick their foot in the door. I'm going to be your new idea person, I'm going to be your new idea for meals, oh my gosh, it would make my wife you know, so much happier. And, you know, to be able to go gosh, I hadn't really thought about this. Or maybe I don't know how to make that. And so there's a fear level over it. Well, gosh, if they've kind of got it prepared for me in a, you know, partially prepared. You know, one of the things that one retailer that I think does a pretty good job of this. Not a great job, is Trader Joe's you know you got to you go to Trader Joe's and you find the barbecue will be for the Tim cherry, you know, whatever, these meats that are already premarinated and cut, and you're just ready to throw them in a pan. Oh my gosh, those little things, just that little tiny little change in that area. really revolutionize the way my family thinks about shopping. They want to go to Trader Joe's first because they go, but I can get so many cool new meal ideas there that I haven't seen in other places. So kudos to Trader Joe's on that one. And you know, I think an opportunity for others to step up and do the same.
Roger Hurni 30:40
Well, and certainly the type of person that can help them help them recognize that they're not selling groceries, they're selling meals, you know, exactly. That old saying the customer doesn't even draw the needle hole. Yeah, exactly. I really need a meal. No. So this book is just you behind here, it’s just you and I here and let's just pretend that, what's on the horizon? And like, can you share a big announcement about anything happening? Like new product category? What are you guys doing anything there?
Brian Fox 31:11
Well, look, I would say, you know, we're, we're starting to make our own self rising crust right now. So we just finished up, you know, 20-plus million dollar investment. And we're making a great new rising crust, that, frankly, I think beats the brands in quality and flavor and just the texture of it. And flavor. And so we've got that starting up. So that's good news for us. You know, we're, our stuffed crust business, you know, we make lots of stuffed crust, pizzas for the US that business is doing exceptionally well. And we're, we're investing in some capacity expansion on that side too. And you know, we've got some other things in the background that I'm pushing really hard on to try to fill some spaces in the market that we see out there today. So nothing really I can unleash outside of those two things at the small work. But if I if I told you, you know, somebody's back in back at the company and operations are going to be going I, you you're not supposed to tell anybody that yet. We haven't figured out if we can make this or not, you can't tell people until we know we can do it. And I'm gonna push, push, push, I want it to happen. So.
Roger Hurni 32:27
I respect that. And I will not push any further. I appreciate company secrets and not divulging information before it's ready to be actually out in the world. One last question for you, Brian, you've been really gracious with your time. And hopefully we can wrap up very quickly here. Yeah, I had a love asking CEOs that because you've provided a lot of great information that people can get out of this show. What's the best advice you've ever gotten?
Brian Fox 33:08
Oh, that's, that's a really good question. And I would say it's probably changed over time, I would say when I was when I was pretty young. And I was in a position to hire somebody for the first time. And frankly, I made a terrible hire, made a terrible hire. And it didn't, didn't work out, you know, this person wasn't happy working with me, and I wasn't happy working with them. And the person who was at my boss at that point in time in it, I'm like 25 or 26 on still, you know, I think I know a lot. But what I didn't realize was how much I didn't know. He said, Look, don't be afraid of hiring people that are smarter, that are sharper, that are faster and better and better than you. And it took me honestly, it took me a week or so before that, to set in, Roger. And when I really got the, you know, the understanding of that, you know, it really changes your perspective, especially as a young person I was, you know, insecure as to who I was and what my skills were. And I was afraid to be vulnerable and hire somebody that was great. Not understanding that having somebody on your team that is great, makes you even greater. And, and that's what I really got out of and take forward. Probably still to today is hire the best people that you can hire people that you want to have, as you know, as a co-worker that you can trust that can have a friendly relationship with not just a work relationship and let him be the smartest and greatest you know that they can because it will be the things that help make your business propel forward. So, there's a podcast, I listen to a guy named Scott Galloway. And he says greatness is achieved with the adjacency of others, meaning, if you have great people around you, you can achieve great things. And so, I like that, and I will leave you with that one. All right.
Roger Hurni 35:24
Hire people smarter than you. Wise words from Brian Fox, the CEO of Richelieu Foods. Brian, thank you for being on the show today. Where can people learn more about you and your company?
Brian Fox 35:37
Sure, yeah. We're on the web. Of course, Richelieufoods.com. You can see the products that we make. They're both in the pizza space and in the dressing and sauce space. I'm, I'm on LinkedIn. So feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. And you know, if you want to give me a call, you can my contacts on there too. So. All right.
Roger Hurni 36:00
Wonderful. Again, thank you for today. I hope you enjoyed listening to the show. We'll talk to you soon, Brian.
Brian Fox 35:37
I did. Roger. Thank you so much.
Outro
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
ROGER HURNI OCTOBER 13, 2022
