Personalizing the Tourism Experience With Debbie Johnson, Director at the Arizona Office of Tourism
Debbie Johnson is the Director at the Arizona Office of Tourism. She has extensive experience in the travel and tourism industry. Debbie served as President and CEO of the Arizona Lodging & Tourism Association for 12 years after serving in the same capacity for the Valley Hotel & Resort Association for 20 years.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Debbie Johnson shares when and how she decided Arizona was the place for her
How the Arizona Office of Tourism navigated the travel shut down during the pandemic
The changes Debbie has seen in travel behavior compared to the start of the pandemic
Why Greer, Arizona, could become a destination spot for travelers
Valuable strategies Debbie utilizes for attracting new visitors to Arizona
Debbie discusses a new marketing campaign the Arizona Office of Tourism is launching
What you’ll learn in this episode:
When we got hit with the pandemic and the world shut down, people waited for the days when traveling was safe again. Travel habits have changed, and people want a more personalized experience. How can states meet the new demands and keep tourism alive and well in the wake of the pandemic?
During the first 18 months of the pandemic, Arizona had a record number of in-state tourists, according to the Arizona Office of Tourism Director Debbie Johnson. Her office realized people still wanted to travel, so they’re helping them do it safely. Now that the pandemic is largely behind us, Debbie’s office is working to personalize the tourist experience in Arizona by creating itineraries that offer five suggestions for out-of-state travelers based on what they’d like to see and experience. Debbie says that it’s a tool that people love.
On this episode of From Persona to Personal, Roger Hurni welcomes Debbie Johnson, Director at the Arizona Office of Tourism, for an in-depth conversation about personalizing tourism. She shares how her office develops campaigns to encourage travelers to come to Arizona and explore everything it has to offer. Debbie talks about simplifying the travel experience and how to make traveling to Arizona easy to create a better overall travel experience.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This episode’s sponsor:
Today’s episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At Off Madison Ave, we create meaningful moments of brand trust and influence how people interact and engage with brands.
There is a science behind tapping into your audiences’ desires and motivation. After all, if you’re not changing your audiences’ behaviors, you can’t truly unlock all of your brand’s potential.
The proven models and methods of Behavior Design is the strategic foundation for your brands’ success.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
This is From Persona to Personal podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by off Madison Ave. Off Madison Ave creates meaningful moments of brand trust and influences how people interact and engage with brands. The science behind their approach taps into your audience's motivations and desires. After all, if you're not changing your audience's behaviors, you can't truly unlock all of your brand's potential. Now, let's get started with the show.
Roger Hurni 0:33
Hello, everyone. I'm Roger Hurni, the host of From Persona to Personal, where I get to speak with top leaders and travel and tourism. I've got an amazing one here today. But before we get to that interview, today's episode is brought to you by Off Madison Ave. At off Madison Ave, we use behavioral science to create meaningful moments of brand trust, which influences how people interact and engage with organizations. Our behavioral approach taps in your audience's motivation and prompts them to shift behavior. After all, if you're not changing the audience's behavior, you truly can't unlock all of your brand's potential. These proven behavior models and methods are the strategic foundation for your brand success. Now for today, I am fortunate enough not just to have a guest, but actually have one of my clients in full disclosure, her name is Debbie Johnson. She is the director of the Arizona Office of Tourism. But honestly, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Debbie's experience in travel and tourism is incredibly deep. Prior to her role at the Arizona Office of Tourism, Debbie was the President and CEO of the Arizona Lodging and Tourism Association, and has more than 20 years, and for more than 20 years, she served as the President and CEO of the Valley Hotel and Resort Association. I don't know of many people smarter than Debbie, if there's any out there in the world when it comes to this category. Debbie, welcome to the show.
Debbie Johnson 1:59
Thank you, Roger, that was a great introduction.
Roger Hurni 2:03
Well, I know the facts. And I know we've known each other for a while, probably few years, actually. But I don't really know a lot about your personal background. We've always had a very business to business relationship. You got into travel and tourism, I think I heard that you got into it in kind of a unique way. Because it wasn't it wasn't a business it was personal.
Debbie Johnson 2:28
Right. You know, it was personal because I came here to Arizona for my very first visit. As a visitor as many people do, as many of our residents and our businesses who move here. They come here for a visit for us which is a great thing to know when you're doing my job to know that people want to have that great experience. So I came here in 1986 for a car race at Phoenix raceway. It was April. And I mean, I'm a little girl from Wyoming 21 or 2 years old, I had the best time. You know, we hiked Camelback Mountain, we laid in the sun listening to Jimmy Buffett, we went to the car race just like the most amazing Arizona experience. And when we flew back to Denver to go home, the roads were closed because of snow. And so we had to scramble and find a place to stay. So you just come from this great experience in Arizona. And you go back to snow and it's April and you're like what am I doing and I moved a year later, I thought I'd finish up college here and I’ve never gone back. So it's a it's a great perspective to have when you when you run a tourism organization.
Roger Hurni 3:23
Well, I can vouch that your love of the state permeates everything that we've ever done together. And it shows up in the work. You're a great leader at it and, and I will tell the listeners because she won't do it. Debbie is super modest. And she gets all the credit to her team all the time. But and there's a lot of truth in that but that said she is wicked smart at this stuff. And so I'm so happy that we're having a conversation. I'm gonna start with like, where everybody starts these days, the pandemic because it just up ended everything that everybody was doing and it really shifted a lot of visitor behaviors. I mean, travel came practically to a halt, how did you and the Arizona Office of Tourism navigate what was happening during the pandemic while travel was shut down.
Debbie Johnson 4:21
Yeah, you know, you think about it, Roger, when the when travel shut down when everything shut down. It was March. And what, that is the busiest month of the year in Arizona. So we're in the middle of Cactus League, we're in the middle of spring break and all those things and all of a sudden, everything shuts down. We're immediately working from home, travel went completely dead. And so from our standpoint, we really started talking instantly to our partners, what do our partners need? How can we help? How can we bring travel back safely? And I think those were some of the things that we started right off the bat. Within the first few months. We realize people still want to get out. They still want to go places, but how can they do it safely? How can they if somebody's wanting to go have a resort experience? That's fine, but if someone wants to camping then we'll go nowhere and not see another soul? That's okay too. So we talk about all the different experiences for literally a year and a half of what people could do, but do it safely at their own comfort level. And I think that was really important to keeping Arizona, that leisure travel strong. And that we did.
Roger Hurni 5:22
So when you say partners, you coordinated with all the other Arizona Tourism Associations like the CVB’s, or
Debbie Johnson 5:31
We call them Destination Marketing Organizations DMO’s. So if I say that that's what that means it's all the CVB’s chambers of commerce. And there's like, 90 of them across the state and we went outside, what do you need? What do you need? How can we help? And, you know, there were a couple counties that did really, really well, during the pandemic, you can think about, you know, like, us we've had a ton of people coming across the border from California. And then Sedona and some of the Northern Arizona places did pretty well, too, because they have all that outdoor area, the places that as you know, we're really struggling and still continue to struggle a little bit is the business and group kind of conference travel. And then of course, international travel, which we've just seen start to come back very recently,
Roger Hurni 6:11
I've had the opportunity to speak with a lot of CEOs and directors of organizations, not many of them were able to pivot that quickly. Fortunately, and again, this is one of the things that I love about Arizona is we have like everything, every kind of option. So you can't be crowded, you can be sparse, right? You can get out and go do a lot of things. And even there's lots of resorts where they were able to accommodate those new behaviors by by giving people the separation and putting in all the safety protocols. And the pivot that you did with all the other organizations altogether, the most mistake was with just seemed really, really rapid, because even though we weren't getting visitors, we still had a lot of people here. So we also promoted in state tourism, we also did that right?
Debbie Johnson 7:30
Our in-state tourism was the strongest it's ever been for that year and a half that first really year and a half of the pandemic. And really, I say it all the time, when I give speeches or presentations, I thank our Arizona residents for keeping people employed for keeping tourism going, because it really was about kind of that safety level that each of us had something different that we wanted to be at. And whether you're a person who did not want to see anybody else, or whether you were comfortable doing something a little bit more adventurous. That was great. But for us, we never stopped marketing. We did it differently. Again, to talk about that safety level, we continue to have conversations to show aspirational messages. So people could plan a trip, even if they weren't going on a trip right, then they might be able to plan a trip in three to six months. And so we kept that messaging going. And for a lot of my people, my peers around the state and other states around the country in other states are not able to do that their marketing was shut down completely. And we did not have that. So we were very blessed.
Roger Hurni 8:01
We're really, we are really lucky that way, you know that I do a lot of work in travel behavior, consumer behavior through that journey. A lot of behavior shifted, we ended up getting a lot of pent up demand during the first couple of years of 2021. What does that mean? Some, I believe we're on the other side of the pandemic, I shouldn't say that I might always live with us a little bit. But we've pretty much gotten through it at this point. What kinds of shifts and that travel behavior you see now what are people wanting now versus what they wanted prior to the pandemic?
Debbie Johnson 8:41
You know, that is so interesting, Roger, and everything we do is you know, as our partner at OMA is based on research, so when we look we look about who our visitor is, how they're traveling, what they're doing, and for a long time, and really, it's all about family and friends and getting out and exploring. And we miss that connection, I think that we had with people. And we're seeing a lot of those international trips, people from the United States going internationally. But we're also now seeing those international people who haven't been able to travel here for over two years, ready to come to back to the United States and have a great experience. So we're, it's really been great to see that connection. And people traveling sometimes with multigenerational kind of groups within their family, family and friends. So other families traveling together with kids of the same age, we tend to stay a little bit more in our pods, kind of those closer groups so you could kind of know where you were at from a safety perspective. But it's been great to see families getting out and that was the purpose. We had a rediscover Arizona campaign, which was all about looking at Arizona in a new way. And it was all about girlfriend's trips and guys trips and golf trips and family trips and all of those things that we missed, during you know, especially that first year of the pandemic.
Roger Hurni 9:32
You know, the messaging behind that campaign in the work that you're doing. I know prior to the pandemic, this will relate to the campaign and what you did. Part of the pandemic. There was a lot of conversation happening in travel and tourism and DMOS just across the country by frankly, on spots that we're dealing with over-tourism. And those over tourism spots, my mind evaporated because the pandemic, it seems, and it seems like the options now seem to be broader for visitors that yes, I want to go to that place that I said I was going to go to. But I also want to try these other three places that nobody goes to. Are you seeing that in from that campaign or from the visitors?
Debbie Johnson 10:39
You just nailed it perfectly. Roger, people want to go to that unknown location. The locals like what are the locals do they want to travel to Arizona, like a local. So where would we go that would be different and unique that a visitor wouldn't go to they want to have those kind of unknown gems that are out there, not the places that are on Instagram all the time. Yes, they might want to see those too. But that's not necessarily why they're coming to Arizona, they're coming to get those things that really not a lot of people are going to and so we really have done some specific messaging around some of those hard to find locations and some of those kind of really true gems that people don't think about, I always look Grier, Arizona, to me, is one of the most beautiful places on earth. And yet not a lot of people go there. It's a you know, a couple hours to the east of Phoenix and but it's just as beautiful outdoor incredible area. Fall is incredible there. And so we want to talk about some of those kind of special places that people can go to that might be outside of the Sedonas of the world, and things like that.
Roger Hurni 11:43
I know Arizona Office of Tourism takes the lead on setting the tone for those opportunities for people to get out and explore. And when I mean explore for all the brothers listening, I'm not talking about like, Hey, let's go out and four days to Canyon Mache, right. And I'm talking about explore shopping, explore great restaurants, explore golf, right? Explore all these amenities, have the DMO’s picked up that tone, and that messaging to try to amplify the work that you've started.
Debbie Johnson 12:17
I think they have. And I think that was the beauty. And I guess I'll call it the silver lining of the pandemic is we were able to work a lot closer and say, here's what we're doing. How can we work better together on this? How can we help you more here, they wanted to know what we were doing so they can piggyback on that. And I think for us a lot of what we did and we took from that was creating itineraries. And it's not an itinerary that you're going to follow step by step, but you're going to go I want to do these five things. And then maybe I'll plug in a couple things over here to personalize it a little bit more. But it was really about that personalization. For the destination you want to go for the things you want to see your family wants to see your group wants to see. And I think by giving them a head start by creating an itinerary, and I don't ever think that those itineraries are used 100%. But it gives people that great starting point to go “Oh, yeah, yeah, that's where I want to start, or I definitely want to make sure and see that.” And it's just a great tool that we found people loved.
Roger Hurni 13:12
Excellent. I know a lot of organizations talk about personalization, some of its lip service, some of them they just don't know how to do. For some organizations, quite frankly, it's really easy, because they might have an app or they have this very, that access very unique behavioral first party data. But when you're an organization, you don't know you don't necessarily know that there's generally the majority coming in or whatever. So the idea of, I'm going to call it choose your own adventure where you have these itineraries where yes, you might not do everything, but you can pick the one that's most relatable and relevant to you and your trip. And that at least entry into personalization. It's a very interesting and unique way of trying to tackle what is what is valuable to people. And I think that's super smart. I think that's something that any DMO across the country can learn to be able to do something like that.
Debbie Johnson 14:06
Oh, it just gives me when we make it easy for people, that's when they can kind of follow that, the easier we can make it for people to visit Arizona, the better experience they're gonna have.
Roger Hurni 14:17
I love that. I tell people all the time in my work with behavior modification, there are three factors that are there in order for any behavior to happen, like somebody's visit at stake. So we're gonna have some motivation. You have to be able to prompt them along the way that that can be a marketing campaign that honestly could be an interaction with somebody at a convenience store in rural Arizona. But you have to make give them the ability to do it. Maybe they'll make it as easy as possible behaviors don't happen. So that's, that's super insightful. And again, a good piece of advice for any other DMO across the country to anything you're going to do make it as easy as possible for your visitors to see all the other options in your state or your area, your county wherever that might bring. Let's shift. A couple more questions, I know we're getting low on time, and you've been really generous with yours. I'm kind of curious, do you have any new or valuable strategies or that you look to for attracting new visitors to the state?
Debbie Johnson 15:22
Well, I think for us, there's, there's so many different things going on out there in the world. And we've got a couple things that we've done with our Appreciate AZ campaign, which is about keeping our land safe, making sure people know how to take care of our places, that's been a really important part of what we do. But we did a “travel personas,” kind of study to know who the people are, that are coming into Arizona. And we're really excited because we have a brand new campaign that's going to come out on October. And it's all based on these personas, and who we found wants to come to Arizona is most interested in Arizona has the opportunity and the willingness to come. So it's going to be really a fun campaign that, again, is about that personalization, based on what research shows they want to do when they travel. And so we're really excited to share that kind of with the world.
Roger Hurni 16:08
So those personas that you're talking about are a great tool for understanding different generations, or or is that or is it also how people are using the state and topics of interest? Or is it a little bit of everything,
Debbie Johnson 16:23
It's more interest based, but there's certainly some, you know, demographic information in there about age ranges, whether it's family, so there's a family group in there, there's a food fanatics, you know, the people who like to experience the food of a destination when they travel, and they may not come to Arizona just for that, but they want that to be part of their experience. And so that's really important, because we have a lot of that here in Arizona to share that foodies. So it's called Foodies Without Pretense of making sure that they get experience that food. That's not the Frou Frou kind of thing, but just that great authentic food that we have in Arizona. And again, you said it earlier, Roger, the things that we have here, the geographic diversity, the cultural diversity, the things that we have in the state are beyond anything I've seen anywhere that I've been, and that's pretty incredible.
Roger Hurni 17:11
Yeah, I love the names of the personas. And I'm gonna recap this, and people don't may not understand this for persona development perspective. So I'll make it clear. When you're doing personas, and you correct me if I'm wrong here, there are common denominator threads, but I look at it kind of like an equalizer that, oh, in this group, they have like foods, let's crank that up. And the messaging and the personalization, oh, this other group likes outdoor adventure, let's crank that one up this other group that we might all share that, that doesn't mean that foodie will go for a hike, it's just that that might be a one time event where the hiker is gonna like do four channels while they're here. And so the personas seem like they just dial up the main point. And that allows you to personalize and really kind of customize that messaging is that how it’s always?
Debbie Johnson 18:03
To a tee and outdoor adventures could be people in their 20s to their 70s. It's not, it's just that outdoor adventure is something they enjoy doing, they like to do as part of their trips. That doesn't mean you don't want to go to the spa to go on a three hour hike. So it's just having again, I love the way you put that common denominator. So things that we know we want to do. And yes, there may be people who may be more likely to be 20 to 35 in that range, but they could go up to 70 or 80. And that's what they like to do. But we just like to look at and give them those options.
Roger Hurni 18:34
I think a lot of organizations make the mistake of looking at demographic information only or relying too heavily on it. Because like, oh, TikTok’s for Gen Z. I don't know, you know what, I've seen plenty of TikTok videos where there's a 70 year old person in them doing something. And I think that's not a great way to go about doing persona development. And I think the best work is when a customer or visitor sees themselves in the work sees themselves in the messaging because you recognize that interest or something else relevant to me. And if you develop your personas that way, that seems like a much, much better way to go about your marketing than just this is the message for old people. This is the message for young people. This is the message for outdoor people, right?
Debbie Johnson 19:24
Yeah, you can't do it that way. Because that's not the way the world is based. That's not what we do.
Roger Hurni 19:31
It makes sense. Okay, so is there any big announcements you can share? It’s just you and me talking. What are you going to share with me that we’re not going to tell the world about?
Debbie Johnson 19:40
I kind of gave a little bit away and that we have a brand new campaign coming out in October and it might have a little focus about “are you here?” And that meaning are you here in Arizona and if so, where are you? So, it's going to be a fun time. campaign is going to be based on those personas, those five travel personas, and really given people some fun new options of things to do in Arizona. So we're so excited about that. I've been here for seven years now. And this is our first really big campaign from start to go that I've been involved in. So, I just cannot wait.
Roger Hurni 20:18
All right, well, I'm looking forward to it. And I'm sure it will be incredibly successful. I have one last question, if you will allow me. Excellent. Completely off the topic, I always like to end the show with what's the best advice you've ever gotten?
Debbie Johnson 20:32
Oh, gosh, the best. There's so much great advice I've gotten, I feel so blessed to work with some amazing people. I'll tell you a couple quick things. One of the things that I tell people all the time is I go talk to college students and people who go, I want your job, I want to do what you do. Don't ever be afraid to do anything, do all the hard work that takes you to get to that spot. Because I tell you what, I'm still lugging boxes with my team every day people go, you don't have to do that. You're the director. Yeah, I do. This is what I do. Like we're setting up things. We're setting up booths, we're doing the hard work, I'm not afraid to do anything, my team does anything. So always be willing to do that hard work. You don't just get here by accident, you get here by working and showing that you're willing to do it. And I think the most important advice, and I try to tell my team members and every family first always family first. Because whether you know I'm a single mom with three kids, but those kids have to come first or your family has to come first because they make the rest of the work that we get to do. So well worth it when you get to have that family time and that great travel time.
Roger Hurni 21:30
Well, that's great advice. And I and I'm not trying to dismiss the family part of it. But I definitely know that a lot of leaders don't believe in rolling up their sleeves and getting in there with the team. And it's it's a really, I’m like that with my staff. It is a great way to really bond with the staff and have them understand that you're in the thick of it with that it creates a great atmosphere so.
Debbie Johnson 21:56
And you want to understand what they're doing to and you can say you've been there, but when you show you've been there and your show you're not afraid of it. I think it demonstrates a lot to everybody.
Roger Hurni 22:11
100%. Well, Debbie, thank you so much for being on the show. I've been having a conversation with Debbie Johnson, she is the director at the Arizona Office of Tourism, Debbie, tell the listeners where they can learn more about you and the Arizona Office of Tourism in the work that you're doing,
Debbie Johnson 22:26
You can go to visitarizona.com, which is our consumer website, which shows all the great things to see and do in Arizona. And if you're in the industry, and you're looking for information about I want to see some of their great research that they do or things like that, you can go to tourism.az.gov that tells a little bit about our team, but all the important things that we're doing in terms of marketing program, research efforts, trading media, great things to learn about the office itself. And thank you Roger, this has been so much fun. You made this so fun and easy.
Roger Hurni 22:48
I'm glad, I'm glad I don't know if I’m this good with everybody. But it's easier when you certainly know the person on the other side of the mic. Thank you. Thank you again. I'm Roger Hurni. This show was From Persona to Personal join me on the next episode and we'll see you all later.
Outro 23:07
Thanks for listening to From Persona to Personal, the podcast that takes a closer look into how organizations personalize their marketing. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
